Packerland Annals

2011-02-07T08:24:00.000-06:00

Interactive Map: John Nolen 1921 plan for Green Bay

2010-08-23T23:52:00.001-05:00

Some time ago,I had posted this article regarding the John Nolen plan.

At that time, I had no way to post the map online. Now I do, thanks to a free site called Gigapan.

For a full screen interactive map, click here. Use your mouse wheel to zoom in for more detail. Left-click to drag the map up/down/left/right.

For another view, use the embedded map below:

Old City Hall

2010-07-08T21:24:00.000-05:00

Here is the old Green Bay City Hall which was torn down in the late 1950's. This was located just north of the current city hall in what is today a parking lot. Presumably the city needed larger accommodations, and so the decision was made to raze this building and build the much larger city hall next door.

Minihan-McCormick building revisited

2010-07-07T21:39:00.000-05:00

The Minahan building, also known as the Minahan-McCormick building, was an early "skyscraper" erected in 1907 at the northeast corner of Walnut and Washington streets in downtown Green Bay. At the time it was built, few cities had buildings much taller than this.

For most of it's existence, it housed the Brown County Building and Loan Association (later named the Colonial Savings & Loan). This building was razed in the 1980's to make way for a surface parking lot. In 2005, a parking ramp was built on the site.

Various historical photos of Green Bay

2010-06-04T20:20:00.002-05:00

The Man from Clear Lake

2010-05-13T19:46:00.002-05:00

Gaylord Nelson and Earth Day
April 22, 2010, marked the 40th anniversary of Earth Day, the day set aside each year since 1970 to promote awareness and appreciation for the earth's environment. Wisconsin's native son, former Governor and U.S. Senator Gaylord Nelson, founded Earth Day. This year, in honor of its 40th anniversary, the University of Wisconsin-Madison's Nelson Institute for Environmental Studies has launched a new website called Gaylord Nelson and Earth Day.

Below: Gaylord Nelson attending a Packer game at Lambeau Field with friends John Reynolds (a Green Bay native who at the time was the Wisconsin State Governor) and Robert Kennedy. Senator Nelson appears to be intently scrutinizing the play of the game. Governor Reynolds looks giddy about his home-town team's chances, like any self-respecting Packer fan ought to. Senator Kennedy...well, he just looks cold.

Kaaps Revisited

2010-05-12T22:44:00.010-05:00

In 2007, I posted an article and picture about Kaaps on Packerland Annals. Kaaps was a very popular restaurant and candy store located at 212 N Washington St in downtown Green Bay.

Recently I found some more old photos of Kaaps courtesy of the Wisconsin Historical Society.

Enjoy them below. Just try not to get too upset that this sweet place, along with a whole block of buildings like it, were demolished in the early 1980's.

Click on any photo to enlarge it.
The site is occupied today by a parking lot and the corner of Vicenzi's bar, the former Boston Store mall building.

Photo Credits: Wisconsin Historical Society, AHI #2235, WHS HPPH

Why is Downtown Important? ...

2010-04-08T21:52:00.000-05:00

Can malls and discount centers take the place of downtowns in the future? The answer is most definitely no. Though malls and discount centers play important roles in our communities, downtown is much more than a shopping center. It is critical for everyone involved in downtown revitalization to understand the value of downtown.

Here are some good reasons why downtown is important (though they’re not in any particular order):

1. Your central business district is a prominent employment center. Even the smallest downtown employs hundreds of people. Downtown is often the largest employer in a community.

2. As a business center, your downtown plays a major role. It may even represent the largest concentration of businesses in your community. It also serves as an incubator for new businesses—the successes of tomorrow.

3. Most of the businesses in your downtown are independently owned. They support a local family who supports the local schools, etc. Independent businesses keep profits in town. This should be repeated: Independent businesses keep profits in town!

4. Downtown is a reflection of how your community sees itself—a critical factor in business retention and recruitment efforts. When industry begins looking at your community as a possible location, they examine many aspects including the quality of life. Included in quality of life is interest in downtown — is it alive and viable, or does it represent local disinterest and failure? Where does Green Bay stand on this point? Uhhhhggggg....

5. Your downtown represents a significant portion of the community’s tax base. If this district declines, property will decrease in value and subsequently increases the tax burden on other parts of your community.

6. The central business district is an indispensable shopping and service center. Though it may no longer hold the place as your community’s most dominant shopping center, it still includes unique shopping and service opportunities. Attorneys, physicians, accountants, and insurance offices, as well as financial institutions, are often located downtown.

7. Your downtown is the historic core of your community. Many of the buildings are historically significant and help highlight your community’s history. You bet that's true in GB.

8. Downtown represents a vast amount of public and private investment. Imagine the costs to recreate all the public infrastructure and buildings already existing in your central business district. Think of the waste of past dollars spent if downtown is neglected.

9. A central business district is often a major tourist draw. When people travel, they want to see unique places. There isn’t a downtown like yours in the world! Many people really do want to visit downtown, when they visit GB to see a Packer game or something, they often check out the downtown. They want to see something unique, they want to see the history, the small shops, not just the run-of-the-mill big box stores and malls. And what do they find when the come to downtown GB?

10. Downtown is usually a government center. Most likely it is where your city hall, county courthouse, and post office are located. This “one stop” shopping for government services is a notable feature of downtowns across the country. Green Bay has an awesome courthouse. I have said many times how it's unfortunate that so many people go there only when they won't enjoy it--when they're under duress--like serving on jury duty or worse, getting tried or married.

11. And, perhaps, most important, your downtown provides a sense of community and place. As Carol Lifkind, author of Main Street: The Face of Urban America, said “...as Main Street, it was uniquely American, a powerful symbol of shared experiences, of common memory, of the challenge, and the struggle of building a civilization... Main Street was always familiar, always recognizable as the heart and soul of the village, town or city.”

(Edited from an article by Alicia Goehring, Wisconsin Main Street Program, Wisconsin Department of Development)

Titletown Brewing Co. in the former Chicago & Northwestern Depot

2009-12-01T21:12:00.001-06:00

I don't know about you, but I continue to enjoy the Green Bay Press-Gazette's series "A is for Architecture". One of my favorite episodes so far was done last year on the former Chicago & Northwestern building which today houses Titletown Brewing Co. and restaurant. The newspaper's writer, Warren Gerds, interviewed Titletown Brewery president Brent Wycker in this piece. Brent's appreciation of the building and it's history is clearly evident.

One of my favorite quotes from Brent Weycker, the president of Titletown Brewing, was this, "This is one of those buildings that you can't re-create, if you wanted to rebuild something like this. It would be cost-prohibitive".

One downside of the slideshow is that they aren't always easy to view and archive. Below is the transcript from this excellent slideshow as well as some choice photos, all courtesy of the Press-Gazette and Titletown Brewing:

"Titletown Brewery started life as the Chicago & Northwestern Railway depot in 1898. Thousands of passengers. Thousands of passengers arrived and departed from the depot at 200 Dousman Street just west of the Fox River in Downtown Green Bay."

"Some of those passengers were Green Bay Packers. At times the crowds swelled to 20,000 people to greet the team after another victory. I'm Brent Wycker, President of Titletown Brewing Company."

"Today the exterior of the building retains much of it's exterior look in keeping with the status on the National Register of Historic Places. The architecture is Romanesque Revival, that means some of its features carry on from Roman times from about 2000 years ago."

"Some signs on the building are the rounded, load-bearing arches over some doors, windows, entryways, and the clock tower."

"The front entry has telltale signs of Romanesque architecture: Columns. Above the columns in the photograph are classical elements in the cornice, modillian or the fringe and other portions of what's called the entablature"

"The primary materials are brick and stone. History continues in the structure, on metal posts on the covered walkway west of the railroad tracks, visitors can see DUNCAN,S IRON WK,S 1898, GREEN BAY WIS the company that once operated nearby in the Broadway District. Many of the bricks in the walkway are original.

"Inside are the old waiting rooms. Back in 1898 when it ws originally built, there was a women's waiting room and a general waiting room. Both of them now are dining areas. The fireplaces still exist"

"What I like best about the building is that trains still go by, reminding everybody that this is still a functioning depot. and that, that's how it very much was, many years ago."

"This is one of those buildings that you can't re-create, if you wanted to rebuild something like this. It would be cost-prohibitive".

Besides being a beautiful building and an important spot, it was also a spot that you got your packages. Everything came through here, it was really a center of excitement.

"The architect is Charles Frost. In the late 1800s and early 1900s railroads were basically redoing their depots because they were the king, they were in the freight business and now they wanted to get into the passenger business. In order to do that they needed to build structures that looked pleasing to the eye and they hired architects and they hired Charles Frost who's wife was the daughter of the president of Chicago Northwestern so I'm sure he had a little "in" there to design it,"

He designed most of the C&N depots that are still standing. Green Bay was an up-and-coming city. Green Bay was very unique in that it had a 5-story clock tower that was one of the main defining buildings on the west side.

"The railroad stood for progress. We didn't have a little bitty depot, we didn't have a giant depot, we had a middle-sized depot, so it was larger than normal of the depots in the near area. And it said that Green Bay was a great city to come to."

This concludes the transcript from the Press-Gazette slideshow. Historic Photos courtesy of TItletown Brewing Company and the Green Bay Press-Gazette.

My notes/commentary:

It's interesting to note that architect Charles Frost also designed many of the well-known and celebrated architecture in Chicago, including the auditorium and headhouse on Navy Pier.

To see the entire Green Bay Press-Gazette "A is for Architecture" series click here. Note that I did not show all of the photos from the slideshow above.

There has been much discussion over on the Green Bay thread on the SSC forum on whether Titletown could be used as a passenger rail depot again someday if the Midwest Regional Rail Initiative does indeed come to fruition. Count me in as one who hopes that passenger rail service comes to Green Bay and that Titletown Brewing building can be expanded as needed to house the depot. I've compiled some of my recent posts on this matter below, with some additional links and pictures:

For me, I am interested in restoring Titletown as the passenger rail station. I love Titletown the restaurant and I think they can and should stay (they could be the 'defacto' place to eat, have coffee, for travellers).

Here's what I understand about Titletown based on conversations with several people: Back in 1995-96 when they renovated the old train station to become a restaurant, at that time I think they leveraged some money that was designated as "transportation funding" through the state or feds. I think some strings were attached to that. I think the idea was to preserve the station in case it would ever be used again for trains.
At the NEWrails meeting I was told that the north end of Titletown has enough space to be used as a passenger station. That space is currently not used (someone please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this).

Although I often rail on parking I do understand its necessity. And I think Titletown's situation offers a better arrangement for the medium-long term parking needs. I'm not saying "Build huge surface parking lots!" but I'm thinking that part of the adjacent property has opportunity to tuck in some parking in a non obtrusive way.

Titletown was built in a way befitting a train station. It's got some cool detail and grand features (as seen above). A new modern stations simply won't be built that way. Not enough money, desire, or support generally to build things this way anymore especially on public buildings. So, any new station will be constructed as cheaply as possible, most likely, and modern prefab materials and building techniques rarely pull off anything architecturally special. For these reasons I worry about what a brand-new station might end up like and so I go back to Titletown as the best choice.

And not to be underestimated: the station will bring with it activity and life. I tend to think that Titletown offers more of a focal point to that, with the views offered from the Main St bridge. This may be a minor point but we do want more people to start to see that the downtown is coming back to life, and this would help.

One question is whether the north part of the building isn't big enough for a station, I would think an addition would be relatively inexpensive (at least compared to building a whole new station)...Plus, the Titletown building already has the track siding and the huge platform which should help save some money on the station. I would think that the restaurant/brewery would welcome a train station, and all of the activity & people it would bring. But rather than assume, I'd like to hear from someone who might know the owner of this place or better yet the owner him/herself. Feel free to post a comment on this blog if you have any further information on this.

A recent picture: the old passenger car is kept on the siding track near the old platform for show, I guess.

Arthur Anderson

2009-11-13T07:57:00.001-06:00

CityDeck construction photo taken this morning

2009-11-09T17:06:00.001-06:00

A new building at the intersection of Walnut & Washington St?

2009-10-25T23:23:00.001-06:00

A couple years ago, a new building proposal called the Grand Union was marketed at the southeast corner of Walnut & Washington Street. At that time, I had provided you the render of the proposed Grand Union here on this blog.

That plan is now dead; However, a new and better plan may be going public soon.

Here is a render of the new plan:

State your case on which downtown Green Bay building is the ugliest

2009-10-18T21:26:00.003-05:00

Although "ugly" is a matter of taste, perhaps you'd like to let loose on which building or part of downtown Green Bay you think is the ugliest. If you don't want to leave a comment on this post, you can choose from the 'ugly poll' instead if you'd like.

Some relevant ugly quotes:

"Art produces ugly things which frequently become more beautiful with time. Fashion, on the other hand, produces beautiful things which always become ugly with time." ~Jean Cocteau

A woman tells her doctor, 'I've got a bad back.' The doctor says, 'It's old age.' The woman says, 'I want a second opinion.' The doctor says: 'Okay - you're ugly as well.' ~Tommy Cooper
(OK, I don't know how this is relevant but it's just funny)

Green Bay Bullfrogs stadium plans made 'official'

2009-10-01T19:57:00.003-05:00

In case you haven't heard, the Green Bay Bullfrogs have gone public with plans to build a new stadium on the Fox River "Brownfield of Dreams" site. This unofficial concept was discussed here on Packerland Annals some time ago.

One of the professional renders that was published in the Green Bay Press-Gazette is shown below:

I like the above render. The brick and other design features fit Green Bay and this site well. My earlier renders, as well as more recent professional ones, are available here on this web album.

I've posted my thoughts on this: I think this site is nearly perfect for this use. Now that the concept is out there, the big hurdle is of course the financing. But as someone once said, “Money never starts an idea. It is always the idea that starts the money.”

Your thoughts?

Mark Oct 22 on your calendars for the next Get-Together

2009-10-01T18:57:00.001-05:00

After the great success of our last "downtown Green Bay" Get-Together in August, I'm holding to my word and starting to organize our next bi-monthly meeting. Mark Oct 22 on your calendars for our next meeting. The time will be about 7:00 PM. I am still deciding on a place; watch this blog for an update. Hope to see you there!

P.S. I'm still very encouraged by the positive reactions to this blog, and I am looking for ways to find the time to continue to post here. Since I often come up with ideas while "on the go", I have recently joined the club of being someone with a smartphone (an iPhone in particular). This should help me record thoughts, brainstorms, etc while on the run, and I'm hoping to use it to post pictures and articles more often.

Thanks for reading, I'm thrilled that you are a reader and a fellow Green Bay critic/enthusiast.

One of the first lighthouses in the Bay of Green Bay

2009-08-30T17:01:00.000-05:00

Some old images of the range lighthouses that used to be in the Bay of Green Bay:

and the closeup:

These were range lights, a pair of two lighthouses that ships used to line up to determine the angles used to navigate safely into the Port of Green Bay. They used to be located here, but were moved from the Bay a couple miles in to near the mouth of the Fox River (where they were recently restored).

Green Bay Aerial from an R/C airplane

2009-08-28T20:16:00.002-05:00

Someone strapped a video camera onto a remote control airplane and flew it around the downtown.

This was mentioned at the dowontown meeting the other night, here it is Check it out on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwHJEvhUgc8

Kennedys in Green Bay

2009-08-28T20:03:00.000-05:00

With the passing of Ted Kennedy I thought I'd rehash an article I wrote some time ago about Kennedys who had visited Green Bay in case you missed it back in 2007.

Ted Kennedy was almost a Packer!

Here's the article with pictures of several Kennedy brothers during their visits to Titletown.

Great meeting last night

2009-08-28T19:55:00.000-05:00

Excellent turnout at last night's downtown Green Bay meeting. Check out some comments on the SSC forum.

I got some good feedback & fodder for this blog last night. I feel encouraged to continue this thing. Those of you who have met me now know that I am truly a cave man.

August 27th Get-Together at Titletown Brewing

2009-08-22T20:05:00.003-05:00

Join us on August 27th at for an informal "Downtown Green Bay enthusiast" meeting. Meet at about 8:00 PM on the 2nd level of Titletown Brewing Co. at 200 Dousman St. Jeff Mirkes of Downtown Green Bay, Inc. will be there to give us a slideshow and talk of what's been happening in DTGB. We will also discuss future meeting places and ideas for things to do, such as perhaps touring some of the other interesting buildings (pending cooperation of the owners of course). See you on Thursday evening!

Favre a Viking

2009-08-22T19:56:00.002-05:00

the new aloft hotel

2009-08-09T20:20:00.012-05:00

The new aloft hotel on the Fox River opened for business earlier in the year. I think it is one of the more interesting hotels to have opened in the area recently and it's in a great location along the Fox River.

I know someone who attended the "Grand Opening" earlier this year. From what I heard, it was not the typical hotel grand opening....instead of your typical boring speeches by politicians, this grand opening was a wild party with all sorts of tomfoolery and shenanigans (including women dressed in nothing but paint).

Anyway, here is a video on YouTube showing off some of the views and amenities of this new hotel.

A Downtown Walk with the Packers

2009-08-05T22:31:00.002-05:00

The Official 2009 Packers Yearbook includes a good article by Cliff Cristl on Downtown Green Bay's "close association" with the Green Bay Packers. Cliff takes the reader on a 4.5 mile walk through historic downtown, describing many of the sites that are significant in Packer history.

The sites include:

Where it all began: The old Green Bay Press-Gazette building, on the 300 block of Cherry Street near the southeast corner of the Associated Bank building. This site is where Curly Lambeau and George Calhoun met in August 1919 to organize the football team. The building was torn down in 1948 and the site is currently used as a parking lot.
The Northern Building, Curly Lambeau's off-season office. I wrote about this in a 2007 blog article. The Packer Yearbook includes a cool picture of this building.
The old Milwaukee Road Depot, the site of victory celebrations when the Packers brought home NFL Titles via passenger rail. Kitty corner from this site was the Packer offices between 1943-1963. (here's an aerial photo of the site as it exists today) Cristl's article recalls some details from David Maraniss's book, When Pride Still Mattered. I read this book also, and it provided some incredible details of the events that transpired here. Cristl's article recalls a bit of that. One of the Packer's low moments was after the 1958 season, when the team under coach Scooter McClean "overwhelmed one opponent, underwhelmed ten opponents, and whelmed one". The book vividly portrays the staff meeting at this site for McClean's going away party just before Lombardi came to town.
St. Willebrord Catholic Church, where Vince Lombardi regularly attended morning mass. According to Cristl's article, the priest there would include things like this in his sermon: "We must love our neighbors, except those dirty Bears. We've got to beat them today".
The Brown County Courthouse, where the Packer Board and Stockholders used to meet. I did not know that they met here.
The Columbus Club building, which served as a gathering place for road games and "Play-by-Play" updates (before the advent of radio or TV broadcasts). Sort of the first Packer Sports Bar. It was also the Packer's clubhouse and dressing room. The team had private space in the top-floor clubhouse, which was once describes as "the finest team headquarters in the entire league". The article also describes the jam-packed rally held here in 1956 to support the referendum to authorize the construction of Lambeau Field. This building became the home of WBAY-TV in the 1960's (the TV station still broadcasts from this location today).
City Stadium, where games were played between the 1920's and 1950's. According to the yearbook article, the entier tract of land from Walnut Street north to the East River was called Hagemeister Park and was used for a variety of uses including Packer games.
The Hotel Northland building, where "members of visiting teams used to complain that small bands of inebriated fans...would march the halls all night long and keep them awake". Almost all players and coaches who visited Green Bay before 1970 used to stay here at this hotel, according to Cristl's article.
Curly Lambeau's Birthplace on Irwin Ave. I bike past this house on my commute. It's a cool old house.

I've been collecting these Packer Yearbooks since I was a kid in the 1980's. I was happy to see this year's combine my team, the Packers with one of my other passions. It's a good one.

Packerland Annals future

2009-07-16T22:12:00.002-05:00

Hi.
How you doin'? Packerland Annals is not dead; it will continue.
Stay tuned, subscribe as a "follower" if you'd like to receive updates on when I start posting again.

Why do we even care about downtown Green Bay?

2009-04-30T20:37:00.002-05:00

Throughout the years, I've thought about why so many people really do give a rat's a$$ about Downtown Green Bay. Clearly there is a large group of you who really care about DTGB. This is evident if you follow forums like SSC , this blog, or if you've been to any of the popular Good Morning, Downtown meetings.

As for me, this article sums it up pretty well.

Why do you care?

Leave a comment, it's interesting what your perspective is, especially considering the lowly state that DTGB has slipped into in recent years. Why not just give up hope?

P.S.
Due to spam, I've had to turn on verification. That means I get your comment and I have to verify it before posting it public. No worries, though, your comment will get posted ASAP.

Excellent turnout in support of the restoration of passenger rail service to Green Bay

2009-03-04T22:01:00.000-06:00

I just got back from the meeting organized by Frank Ingram to support passenger rail service to Green Bay.   This meeting was held at at Titletown Brewery (one of the former Green Bay train depots). The turnout was unprecedented. As Frank said, he expected "4 people and a dog" but actually the meeting had to be split into 2 sessions, with a packed room at each. I'd estimate that 100 people showed up to support this, although I'm sure Frank will update with a more solid number.

If you're interested in staying in touch with this group and getting a summary of this meeting, send an email to Frank at:   gbpassrail@new.rr.com

If you also attended this meeting, please comment with your observations and reactions. I plan to blog more about these developments in the future.

Open Thread

2009-02-21T16:31:00.000-06:00

Life's been keeping me busy, not much time for blogging lately, so I think it's time to invite some comments. If you have anything you want to say about this blog or the topics within, let's hear it!

The Resurgence of the Trolley

2009-01-20T06:00:00.000-06:00

Trolleys were beneficial both economically and socially during the 20th century. It appears they may be making a comeback. I hope Green Bay gets back into the program.

The street railway was a major catalyst of urban development in the last half of the 19th century and the first decades of the 20th. Streetcars provided mobility that enabled workers to reach their factory jobs while living further than walking distance from their places of employment. They enabled growth of suburbs and then brought people to city centers in sufficient density to support the development of department stores, major league sports, large theaters, and even created America's classic amusement parks, where streetcars could take workers on weekends.

The decline of American cities in the 20 years after World War II was paralleled by the decline of electric streetcars. Paved roads and affordable autos sent workers and often jobs further from downtown, and buses were developed that could transport the few who couldn't afford cars, but consequently helped give public transit a down-market image.

But a renewed interest in America's downtowns, spurred in part by ever-longer commutes on traffic choked arteries, and by the soullessness some found in suburban life, served to reverse that trend.

Remarkably, the electric streetcar has again emerged as a catalyst that helps encourage redevelopment of often-derelict downtown neighborhoods, but more importantly encourages a density of development that makes the neighborhoods they serve efficient in land use and highly desirable places to live.

Since the pioneering second generation downtown streetcar lines began to appear in the mid-1980s, there has been an ever growing appreciation of the roles they can play in helping focus redevelopment.

Streetcars are energy efficient and the electricity that powers them can be generated from domestic, renewable sources. The permanence denoted by the track installed in street pavement and the power wire erected above encourages developers to concentrate their investments near streetcar lines. The close spacing of streetcar stops means that development can be spread along a corridor....

Click here to read the rest of this article--especially be sure to scroll down to some tables that help to quantify the impressive record in four cities with new streetcar systems, including Kenosha.
Also, check out this mission statement from the American Public Transportation Association:

Mission: Urban life in America is making a strong resurgence. This has led to a revival of interest not only in the preservation of historic districts and urban neighborhoods, but also in a classic technology—the urban streetcar—that can serve as a major catalyst for urban revival. As traditional neighborhoods in older cities become the location of choice for more American—singles, young couples, families, and empty-nesters alike—there is an emerging a need to provide good and attractive transit service to these areas. The APTA Streetcar and Heritage Trolley Subcommittee (of the APTA Rail Committee) was formed to promote the development of vintage/heritage trolley lines and modern streetcar lines in urban centers, to foster information exchange among those planning or operating such lines, and to encourage reasonable technical and safety standards.

Here is the APTA web site. I'm interested in this stuff because I think this kind of thing just might work to help revitalize Green Bay's downtown. Yeah, I'm harping on that streetcar loop idea again.

I'm stuck on the idea for a whole bunch of reasons, some of which somewhat repeats the article above but mine (below) are a bit more Green Bay-specific:

we need some sort of quiet, clean, attractive, efficient downtown circulator transit system that could reduce the need for large ugly parking lots & ramps that destroy the urban character of the downtown;
It could allow people to park just once, either on the downtown's periphery or in one of the ramps, and then easily move about the downtown
A loop means no going out-of-the-way to the transit center and to potentially transfer, as the current bus system does
Many people generally dislike busses (even those that are dressed up as trollies).
streetcar tracks are relatively inexpensive to put in place,
streetcar tracks may be seen as being more 'permanent' infrastructure. This could make business more prone to locate along the route in existing buildings and hopefully even infill some of the parking lots.
people would dig how these things hearken back to the "glory years" of downtown Green Bay. The state & national media would undoubtedly showcase the trolleys, and downtown would once again be in the limelight instead of just Lambeau (a spur line could, by the way, be run off of the circulator loop to the stadium/Oneida Street area. This would bring people into downtown without the need for parking)
the trolley loop would tie into the eventual regional passenger rail depot, likely to be built on the west side of the Fox River (perhaps near Titletown Brewing)

The trolley industry is apparently coming alove. Here is a modern company in Iowa that builds old-style electric trolleys.

Good morning America, how are you? Said don't you know me, I'm your native son

2009-01-15T12:46:00.002-06:00

If the below embedded YouTube video & song doesn't work, click Magic carpets made of steel:

Riding on the City of New Orleans,
Illinois Central Monday morning rail
Fifteen cars and fifteen restless riders,
Three conductors and twenty-five sacks of mail.
All along the southbound odyssey
The train pulls out at Kankakee
Rolls along past houses, farms and fields.
Passin' trains that have no names,
Freight yards full of old black men
And the graveyards of the rusted automobiles.

CHORUS:
Good morning America how are you?
Don't you know me I'm your native son,
I'm the train they call The City of New Orleans,
I'll be gone five hundred miles when the day is done.

Dealin' card games with the old men in the club car.
Penny a point ain't no one keepin' score.
Pass the paper bag that holds the bottle
Feel the wheels rumblin' 'neath the floor.
And the sons of pullman porters
And the sons of engineers
Ride their father's magic carpets made of steel.
Mothers with their babes asleep,
Are rockin' to the gentle beat
And the rhythm of the rails is all they feel.

CHORUS

Nighttime on The City of New Orleans,
Changing cars in Memphis, Tennessee.
Half way home, we'll be there by morning
Through the Mississippi darkness
Rolling down to the sea.
And all the towns and people seem
To fade into a bad dream
And the steel rails still ain't heard the news.
The conductor sings his song again,
The passengers will please refrain
This train's got the disappearing railroad blues.

Good night, America, how are you?
Don't you know me I'm your native son,
I'm the train they call The City of New Orleans,
I'll be gone five hundred miles when the day is done.

I've always loved this song! Though I've never been that much of a train geek, this passenger rail theme has got me going.

From SongFacts.com:

Steve Goodman wrote this in 1970. He wrote the lyrics on a sketch pad after his wife fell asleep on the Illinois Central train, where they were going to visit his wife's grandmother. Goodman wrote about what he saw looking out the windows of the train and playing cards in the club car. Everything in the song actually happened on the ride. After he returned home he heard the train was scheduled to be decommissioned do to lack of passengers. He was encouraged to use this song to save the train. He retouched the lyrics and released it on his first album in 1971.

(Arlo) Guthrie's cover in 1972 popularized the song and brought attention to rail lines that were vanishing across middle America. Many people ... relied on them to travel.

I think this song means more than ever today. How is America? Not particularly well, partly because we abandoned our 'native son'.

News might break on this soon

2009-01-10T17:18:00.005-06:00

News might break soon on the Bullfrogs building a new stadium on the 'brownfield site', if it's going to happen. I wonder about the financing of it--that's got to be extremely difficult right now. Anyone heard anything new on this lately?

I still think it's a damn good idea!! (it's not my idea, I just took the idea from some other smart guy and rendered it up...)

Some Thoreau quotes

2009-01-08T18:00:00.002-06:00

OK, I will get to finishing the plan review. Instead of blogging, I've been spending my limited spare time doing some other stuff like reading. Here's something for you:

Here are a few Henry David Thoreau quotes that may relate to the themes of this blog:

"What's the use of a fine house if you haven't got a tolerable planet to put it on?"

"Live each season as it passes; breathe the air, drink the drink, taste the fruit, and resign yourself to the influences of each."

"If one advances confidently in the direction of one's dreams, and endeavors to live the life which one has imagined, one will meet with a success unexpected in uncommon hours."

Thoreau touted things like simple living in natural surroundings. I totally agree that we all could benefit by spending more time surrounded by nature. While I respect many of his philosophies, I have to say he may have unwittingly helped to start the ideal of suburbanism when he built the house on Walden Pond, which was not really wilderness (it was on the outskirts of town).

What the heck are "Infrastructure Republicans"?

2009-01-05T21:26:00.000-06:00

What are "Infrastructure Republicans"? Smart and practical ones. Read the full story here.

(p.s. if you don't already know where I stand on rail transportation, click here for a summary of some of my previous articles on this topic)

Getting America Back on Track

2009-01-02T14:14:00.000-06:00

Another good article on the PPS blog. Here's a portion of it:

Restoring train service to American communities—intercity passenger service, commuter trains, light rail and trolleys—is an important element of the Placemaking vision. Giving people a comfortable, convenient alternative to driving will help protect the environment, boost the economy, strengthen our communities and rekindle a spirit of place across the country.

Read the full article here

Almost 4 feet of snow this month

2009-01-01T10:59:00.000-06:00

From the Green Bay Press-Gazette:

45.6 inches: December snowfall record buried

Green Bay ended the month with 45.6 inches of snowfall, the most of any December on record. It buried the previous record of 36.4 inches, set in December 1887, but fell 2.6 inches short of matching the snowiest month of all time for Green Bay. That record goes to March 1888, with 48.2 inches, which helped the winter of 1887-88 become the snowiest winter in Green Bay history at 147.7 inches total.

The winter 120 years ago will be tough to beat. Its December record fell, but that winter had an impressive head start: It began in October, when 10.3 inches fell — the most snow any October has ever had in Green Bay. And it ended with that 48.2-inch record snowfall in March.
This winter hasn't produced any single major snowfalls. The 5.4 inches that fell on the Dec. 19 was the heaviest snowfall in a single 24-hour period. But the month accumulated its impressive total over 21 days of snowfall. The greatest depth at any one time was 19 inches, measured on Friday.
The National Weather Service isn't expecting this December to set the tone for the remainder of the season. It is predicting normal precipitation through March

Photos below also from the Press-Gazette. I liked the downtown views.

Last week, the end of my driveway had a pile of snow as tall as my head and my mailbox was pretty much buried. We then had those couple days of 40+ temps which melted the snow back somewhat. My old snowblower broke after one use...However, just about every day I got home from work, the snow on my driveway was already cleared by my awesome neighbors! Gotta love the people of Green Bay!!

Mixed-Use Parking Ramp (#25)

2009-01-01T06:00:00.003-06:00

Another parking ramp:

With total build out the Convention Marina (#20), Regional Attraction (#18) and Convention Center Expansion (#17) the need to accomodate parking near these facilities will be critical. A new parking structure is proposed in the existing surface lot of the Regency Center to provide parking. The parking is strategically located to serve the Regional Attraction (18) and the Convention Center Expansion (17). The potential exists to incorporate leasable commercial space or additional exhibit/conferencing facilities within the mixed-use structure. Possible uses at street level include offices for the Chamber of Commerce and the Visitor and Convention Bureau with a visitors information center, as well as support commercial and meeting space for convention activities. The structure would accomodate approcximately 128 to 145 spaces per level. An alternate consideration for additional parking ramp development may be the surfvace lot east of the WPS complex. Existing environmental concerns and cost implications may make this alternative nonfeasible.

Commentary: As much as I dislike them, I guess another parking ramp is probably critical if indeed we want to see the current large surface parking lot developed into anything else. One odd thing is that the plan map shows this ramp getting placed in front of the existing Regency building. It's hard to imagine the Regency going along with this, as it would block the "curb view" from Main St. Although parking for the Hotel Sierra may be desired, I'm not sure they'd enjoy the view of it from their building either. Who knows, though. The ground-level lease space would help. However the Chamber of Commerce won't be moving here since they just moved into a new building on Broadway.

Happy New Year

2008-12-31T14:15:00.000-06:00

My New Years Resolution: To finish my review of the 1997 downtown Green Bay Design Plan!

The plan review should be done within the first week of 2009. I have a lot of other material for blog articles coming up soon.

I hope your resolutions include:

1) Continuing to read Packerland Annals
2) Posting comments on Packerland Annals
3) Helping to re-energize this city in whatever way you can.

New Hotel (#24)

2008-12-30T06:01:00.000-06:00

The 1997 downtown plan continues with more plans for the Convention District:

When the Convention Center Expansion (#17) is completed, the potential for more hotel space is anticipated. The property at the southwest corner of Main and Madison streets can accomodate a higher use than currently exists. The more intensive development of that property would also help in forming a more significant and identifiable environment. The plan explores the devlopment of a new entrance into the mall along with a new hotel connection to the mall on Main Street, and connecting the hotel through the mall and the existing sky walk to the Convention Center. The proposed facility shown is approximately 18,000 square feet per level with a new addition or independent structure located between the hotel and the mall. Parking would be provided in the future by building a parking ramp through the use of air rights retained by the city in this location. The new parking structure may accomodate 113 to 128 parking spaces per level.

Commentary: A dentist office was built on the Main & Madison site after this plan was published. I heard the city was disappointed that the new building was only 1-story tall. I also seem to recall that the building was designed so that more floors could be added if/when demand necessitated it. I suppose a hotel could be added on the upper floors, but that seems unlikely now.

But I think other sites near the convention center may be more suitable for a new hotel. Perhaps the Days Inn could be renovated/upgraded into a new, larger hotel. Or, if the Astor Place condos are not getting built, I would say that site next to the river on the would also be pretty sweet for a hotel. Below I've posted a few renders of what these other sites on the corner of Main and Washington could look like if a new hotel was built here:

Hotel Expansion (#23)

2008-12-30T06:00:00.003-06:00

The Downtown Design Plan continues...

The area directly north of the Holiday Inn provids an opportunity to develop additional hotel space. Conventional expansion--an addition to the existing hotel facility--is possible, but the plan explores the concept of developing something different in the downtown area. Garden, courtyard, or executive suites may provide an alternative to lodging that could complement the desired increase in convention/event traffic by the Convention Center Expansion (#17). Other concepts may incorportate a residential component with executive suites. In either case, the development should complement and support activites within the Convention District. Approximately forty suites are accomodated in the expansion scenario indicated.

A courtyard was built here.

30 fine winter photos of downtown Green Bay

2008-12-27T14:16:00.001-06:00

Check out these fresh winter photos of DT GB, posted by "Danillo" over on the skyscrapercity forum.

Excellent work, Danillo, thanks for doing this!

Landmark Tower (#22)

2008-12-27T06:00:00.001-06:00

From the City's 1997 "Downtown Design Plan", this is #22:

A "Landmark" Tower, a highly visible element, is proposed near the confluence of the Fox and East Rivers. A landmark symbolic of a harbor light or beacon, identifying the port of Green Bay may be appropriate. The intent of this landmark is to provide a predominant visual cue to downtown, visible from a significant distance outside of the downtown area. The landmark becomes a point of reference, as well as a viewable structure and constant reminder of the downtown area within the immediate region. The options for implementation are many. Initial concepts could range from simply a lighted radio or transmission tower, to an ornamentally detailed functional technology tower (supporting cell phone, digital or microwave communicationss) costs of which are disbursed among the users of the tower, as well as the public utility and city, to a nonfunctional, high design public art element. The tower could be designed to incorporate similiar materials, colors, or other elements use in the wayfinding and gatweway feature in and around downtown.

Commentary: I came to this same conclusion, that a tower of some sort would work here. Not only as a beacon or symbol. but also serve (and get funded by) communicaitons technology. Implementation. Design. Visual. Hearken to the symbolic location of early settlers here, Fort Howard. Something like the Milwaukee Water Tower--this is an old example of a tower with both form and function:

WPS Parking Ramp (#21)

2008-12-26T06:01:00.000-06:00

Since this ties in so closely with the last two recommendations of the '97 plan, I thought I'd just go ahead asn post this article today along with #20

WPS Parking Ramp:

With the potential loss of exising parking being displaced by the Convention Marina (#20) and related uses, parking for utility and possibly some Regency Center employees may be accommodated with a parking ramp, located among existing facilities. The parking ramp would be for use by WPS employees and visitors, this allowing for the shared use of nearby surface parking. The ramp may also be designed to accomodate future facility expansion. Approximately 113 to 128 spaces per level may be accomodated within the proposed ramp.

Would this parking ramp have to be built first, before the Marina or Regional Attraction? Seems to me this should be done ASAP and then hope that the Regional Attraction and Marina follow. Is anyone at the city working with WPS (presumably the current owner of this whole site) on any of these plans?

Convention Marina (#20)

2008-12-26T06:00:00.002-06:00

To further enhance the waterfront at "the Point" (confluence of East & Fox Rivers), the 1997 plan called for some sort of marina to tie into the proposed Regional Attraction, Riverwalk, and Convention Center:

The area northeast of the Convention Center along the East River would be targeted for more intense development than currently exists (WPS surface parking lots). Boat docking facilities on the East River would be developed. Public access would be maintained adjacent to the docks as part of the riverwalk. Seasonal or special event vendors may be encouraged and development may include a restaurant or specialty shops associated with Green Bay area and Wisconsin products, water oriented activity clubs, or activities at the Regional Attraction (#18). Additionally, a water taxi may dock here, thus completing a river oriented linkage between various activity anchors along the Fox and East rivers. Existing surface lots could be modified to encourage shared use between marina users, patrons of the Regional Attraction (#18) and WPS employees.

The aerials I displayed along with Regional Attraction (below) show this waterfront area in its current condition. I have no idea how feasible this marina is. It seems a lot of other pieces would have to come together in this area before a marina would be supported.

Merry Christmas

2008-12-24T06:00:00.001-06:00

Taking a break. Will return on the 26th.

Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas, you wonderful old Building and Loan!

2008-12-23T06:00:00.001-06:00

I'm taking a little break from the plan posts. I'll be back after Christmas with some more hopes and dreams for this crummy little town. In the mean time, hope you don't mind me re-posting something I wrote a year ago:

"Merry Christmas, you wonderful old Building and Loan!"
~George Bailey in "It's A Wonderful Life" as he joyfully runs through the streets of Bedford Falls (not Pottersville!)
The Minahan building, also known as the Minahan-McCormick building, was an early "skyscraper" erected in 1908 at the northeast corner of Walnut and Washington streets in downtown Green Bay. At the time it was built, few cities had buildings much taller than this.

For most of it's existence, it housed the Brown County Building and Loan Association (later named the Colonial Savings & Loan). I'm not sure why, but this building was razed in the 1980's to make way for a surface parking lot. Maybe that "warped, frustrated old man", Mr. Potter, finally got his hands on it? Hmm... In 2005, a parking ramp was built on the site.

"I'm shakin' the dust of this crummy little town off my feet and I'm gonna see the world. Italy, Greece, the Parthenon, the Colosseum. Then, I'm comin' back here to go to college and see what they know. And then I'm gonna build things. I'm gonna build airfields, I'm gonna build skyscrapers a hundred stories high, I'm gonna build bridges a mile long..." George Bailey

By the way, you can watch the entire movie for free on demand on Google Videos.

Even if you don't watch the entire movie, fast forward to parts where they show scenes of the small city of "Bedford Falls". What great urbanism, even for a small city. I imagine Green Bay used to look and function like that back then. Those were the days before the car absolutely took over. Mr. Potter was no match for the automobile when it came to taking over cities.

"You sit around here and you spin your little webs and you think the whole world revolves around you and your money. Well, it doesn't, Mr. Potter. In the whole vast configuration of things, I'd say you were nothing but a scurvy little spider.

And... And that goes for you, too! And for you, too!"

East River Park (#19)

2008-12-21T06:00:00.002-06:00

Recommendation #19 in the 1997 plan tried to green things up a bit at a rather nasty looking corner at the intersection of Main and Monroe:

To further complement new development, a new park that extends east of Monroe to Whitney Park is proposed. This park provides an extension of the pedestrian access along the Fox River Walk system into neighborhoods east of downtown and provides a civic-oriented entrance into the Central Activity Core and the Regional Attraction (#18) at the intersection of Monroe Ave and Main Street. The trail can also be extended along the East River to Webster Street. Additionally, a small boat launch facility and posible pavilion structure may be incoprorated into the park. Such a facility may utilize the existing building on the corner of Main Street and Monroe Avenue or a new structure to support public gathering and activities oriented toward park and river use.

Commentary/Map

The plan was not followed. I'm not sure how much this mall park would have been actually used anyway, other than perhaps by an occasional pedestrian using the riverwalk. The overriding benefit of a park here might have been aesthetic.

Instead of a park, Streu's Pharmacy relocated here. I like Streu's, it's great they kept the business in downtown and from what I've heard the interior is quite nice. The exterior of the building is a little too suburban; the rather large parking lot isn't as nice as a park would have been but that's not what bothers me the most. What I thought most about is this: I wish that Streus had relocated somewhere else in the downtown, perhaps on Adams or Washington Street in a more urban "downtown-y" (yet still accessible) place, and that this site had been made into a park as the plan had called for. I'm not sure that Streu's really benefits from this as a "downtown" location. The building may be set back too far from both of the streets, and although a lot of cars travel both Main and Monroe Ave, drivers may be less cognizant of Streu's and more concerned about merging traffic, the rather treacherous curvy /slopy East River bridge, and other things. Also I can't imagine Streu's gets much of a "walk-in" crowd. Maybe I'm way off base here, I have not studied this very hard and I have no idea what kind of customers visit Streus. All I know is, I would be much more likely to stop into Streus for stuff had they located several blocks farther southwest more in the "core" of the downtown.

bird's eye views from other perspectives

Regional Attraction (#18)

2008-12-20T06:00:00.001-06:00

The 1997 plan went for something larger with recommendation #18:

A key component of downtown will be a distinct, regional attraction that complements the convention facilities. The regional atraction would provide an anchor for the Central Activity Core and the riverwalk on the east side of the Fox River. The structure's architecture would also provide a key opportunity to present a more dramatic entry into downtown, complemented by new green space east of Monroe Ave (#19), a proposed hotel (#24) and expanded conference/convention facilities (#17). The facility should accomodate activities, such as a planetarium, aquarium, arboretum, science/discovery museum, or other activities, unique to the area that would capture the regional/resident market.

My comments: Cool idea. Right now, this area is just a vast parking lot (birds eye view).

There is a higher use for this site, as a core piece of downtown property, which also happens to be at "the point", the confluence of the East and Fox Rivers. It is a significant gateway into the downtown for drivers coming in on Monroe (Hwy 54) as well. (see #18 on this graphic)

I think an aquarium or discovery museum might have some potential. The the convention center and several hotels next door, there is some real potential here. Of course the displacement of existing parking would have to be addressed with another parking ramp and/or enhanced transit options. Bottom line is that this site could really be something much greater than the sea of asphalt that it is right now.

What could fit into and capture the regional market?

More snow & cold............

2008-12-19T20:44:00.000-06:00

From the Green Bay Press-Gazette:

No surprise: Winter 2009 could be one for record books

We've seen more than 30 inches of snow already

BY PAUL SRUBAS • psrubas@greenbaypressgazette.com • December 19, 2008
Buzz up! The winter of 2008-2009 is shaping up to be a strong contender for the record books.

This morning’s snowstorm, which dropped 5.4 inches on Green Bay by mid-day, put the area within a few flakes of besting December 2007. And that’s with more than a week to go.

“With upcoming storms, we’ll be well above last year’s December,” said Mike Cellitti of the National Weather Service in Ashwaubenon.

A snowstorm expected to arrive late Saturday should leave the area with another 4 to 7 inches by the time it ends Sunday, Cellitti said. And, Tuesday is expected to bring another snowfall of several inches, he said.

November gave this season a 6-inch head start over last year’s season. By mid-day Friday, Green Bay had 30.6 inches of snow for the season – well over a third of way toward last season’s 87.4 total accumulation.

Winter doesn’t technically start until 6:04 a.m. Sunday. But if you regard winter as the season of snow, last year’s winter had the third-highest snowfall on record and the highest in the last 108 years. The top places went to two seasons in the late 1880s. Recent research by the National Weather Service adjusted those records upward slightly, putting the winter of 1887-88 in first at 147.7 inches, and winter of 1889-90 at 103.6 inches.

Convention Center Expansion (#17)

2008-12-19T06:05:00.001-06:00

Moving on to the first "district" identified in the plan, the "Convention District":

This opportunity includes the phased development (up to 45,000 square feet initally) to the west of the existing exhibit hall. According to previous studies, this would accomodate approximately 80 percent of the conference demand that is not currently being captured because of existing capacity constraints. There is also potential to develop above-grade pedestrian access to the existing Holiday Inn. Additional convention center expansion for meeting rooms may be possible as part of the proposed Mixed-Use Parking Ramp (#25) in the district and/or through using available space in the mall in the future. Parking needs in this area need to be considered siuultaneously to expansion and may be addressed through the developmetn of the two proposed parking ramps (21 and 25). Also, the expanded Pine Street Ramp (24) can be utilized to alleviate some needs.

Reaction: The KI COnvention Center was built in 2000 and this seems to be a success. THere is additional convention space in the nearby Holiday Inn as well as other nearby hotels.
Photo. More.

Downtown Green Bay one of 10 semifinalists in the Great American Main Street Award

2008-12-18T19:57:00.000-06:00

The Broadway District in downtown Green Bay is one of 10 semifinalists for the Great American Main Street Award (GAMSA) for 2009. The award is given by the National Trust Main Street Center to recognize exceptional accomplishments in revitalizing America's historic and older main street commercial districts.

Semifinalists and winners demonstrate exemplary achievement in the process of strengthening their downtowns and commercial districts based on the following selection criteria:

· Active involvement of the public and private sectors;
· Broad-based community support for the revitalization effort;
· Quality of achievements over time;
· Innovative solutions to significant problems;
· Commitment to historic preservation;
· Evolving track record of successful commercial district revitalization;
· Comprehensive revitalization effort: activity in all four points of the Main Street Four-Point Approach® to commercial district revitalization;
· Economic impact of the revitalization program; and
· Successful small business development.

Semifinalists, in addition to Green Bay, are Aledo, Ill.; Baltimore, Md.; El Dorado, Ark.; Fairmont, W. Va.; Rochester, MI.; Livermore, Calif.; Oberlin, Ohio; Rehoboth Beach, Del; and Toccoa, Ga.

Five communities will be selected to receive the GAMSA designation. Awards will be announced on March 2 at the National Main Streets Conference in Chicago. Click here for more.

Mixed-Use Development (#16)

2008-12-18T06:00:00.001-06:00

The '97 downtown plan wrapped up the Broadway Village district with some general thoughts on how to treat the area near K&K Warehousing next to the Fox River just south of West Walnut Street & Pearl Street:

Existing industrual structures should be further investigated as to their feasibilty for conversion to alternative uses. Potential uses would include residential and business lofts, providing generous expanses of space for a variety of uses and designs. Existing metal skins may be removed and the facades restored to the original character, enhancing the warehouse/loft theme. Boat docks along the river and other land-based amenities should be encouraged to enhance the residential and office characteristics of the site.

Commentary: In recent years, this area was known as K&K Warehousing. About 4 or 5 years ago, the dock re-done and the adjacent river bed was dredged. Ships delivered lumber products from Europe. That activity has ceased, apparently the function has moved downriver north of the Leicht Park site (#13). Just recently, news was announced that this site will be converted to a boat-building operation for the U.S. Coast Guard (link to article).

None of this actual activity involves conversion to residential or business lofts, as called for in the plan, and you know what? I'm cool with that because the river is more functional, more interesting, and perhaps more useful when at least parts of it continue as port facilities.

Map

Marina and Mixed-Use Complex (#15)

2008-12-17T06:00:00.004-06:00

Here's what the 1997 Downtown Green Bay Design Plan had planned for the "brownfield site", on which I recently blogged about an idea for a baseball stadium and more:

The south anchor of the Broadway Village would be comprised of a mixed-use development. The existing slip on the Fox River would be modified to accomodate a multipurpose marina and development. On the south side, a maintenance marina could be constructed. The maintenance marina would house facilities to dry dock and store boats, provide boat service and repair, boat fueling and equipment. Screening of some of these activities may be accomplished through landscape improvements and other accepted methods and structural qualities should compliment and enhance the area. Along with the facility, part of the site would be developed as a public boat lauch. On the west side fo the marina, the plan envisions office/research oriented development. Research and exhibit pools could be incorporated in the marina and as part of this facility. On the north side of the marina, a modest sized commercial development could also occur. For example, restaurant, retail or office uses that are ortiented towards the river would be appropriate. At-grade cossings at the active rail lines would need to be enhanced.

Even if a baseball stadium was built on the south side of the slip on the Fox River, many of the other plans as laid out in 1997 could still be accomodated, in fact perhaps encouraged: There would still be room for the public boat launch, maintenance marina, and commercial development.

Current site conditions (above). The city would like this to be known as the "Greenfield" now because the contamination on the site has been cleaned up. However, as you can see, the site is still kinda brown colored, even in the summer.

Baseball Stadium concept with a Mixed-use marina complex (below)

More information:

First "Brownfield of Dreams" blog post: click here

promotional PDF (printable): Click here

Neville Public Museum Expansion (#14)

2008-12-16T06:00:00.001-06:00

Recommendation #14 from the 1997 downtown plan included a museum expansion:

The Neville Museum site may accommodate future expansion and additional amenities as described in previous plans. The removal of commercial structures north of the museum along Dousman Street betwen the railroad tracks and Fox River, parking modifications including a parking ramp on Pearl Street to support the museum and activities along Broadway, and the addition of waterfront amenities would be undertaken. Pedestrian connections to the park would be developed along with public amenities adjacent to the river. Addtional exhibits could be incorporated, such as an outdoor sculpure park/educational platform and a dock, to accomodate temporary boat exhibits (historical and contemporary) or water taxis. The entry to the museum and Fox River and Great Lakes Park (13) would be signaled and Museum Way would be closed as a through street.

Public Access from Broadway to the museum area would be provided by a pedestrian at-grade crossing at the railroad tracks to the Veterans Memorial Park, Neville Museum, and waterfront activity area. The design of this connection would require the closure of Pearl Street, incorporate pedestrian safety features and complement the adaptive reuse or redevelopment of adjacent properties. To the south, new dock facilities would be developed adjacent to the Rivers Edge Apartments.

This would tie in well with the plans for the adjacent sites and wholistically with the whole downtown. A few of these recommendations have been followed, including the outdoor art (the dinosaurs, which by the way have little or no connection to the museum or this area, but I suppose I'm being too critical because the kids love dinosaurs). Anyway, I'm not sure how or when the rest of the recommendations could be phased in successfully. I'd love to see a pedestrian walkway tunnel build underneath Dousman between the museum and Leicht Park, but how much would this cost and would it be worth it? Why didn't they do this right away when the new bridge was being built?

I'm all for the museum but it seems to be struggling a bit in recent years, and I'm not sure that an expansion is called for at this time. What do you think?

Fox River and Great Lakes Park (#13)

2008-12-15T06:00:00.002-06:00

Here's a pretty good idea from the 1997 plan.

Great Lakes Excursion Boat Landing and Pavilion: A boat landing and pavilion is one anchor in the park. The landing accomodates an excursion boat for the Great Lakes Region. The pavilion would house excursion offices, storage, emergency maintenance, gift shops, and perhaps a restaurant. Opportunities also exist for a Great Lakes educational exhibit and information center.

This covers the site of the Leicht Storage and Transfer ship terminal and warehouses. In about 1999, many of the largest warehouses were destroyed by a large fire set by an arsonist. The warehouse was not rebuilt, but ships continued to dock and unload here.

In about 2005, the southern end of this site was donated or leased (I'm not sure) from the Leicht business to the City of Green Bay. As of 2008, the park has begun to be developed and this plan has been partially implemented.

The '97 plan continues to discuss ideas for this site:

Observation shelters may provide unobstructed views of the river to observe incoming ships, river activity and special events. Each shelter may incorproate educational kiosks, describing the worknigs of ships, bridges, and the economic role that the river commerce plays in the region (current and past). Some of the shelters could be semi-public, in that they may require reservations to accomodate small corporate and school functions or group/family gatherings.

This is a great site from which to watch river traffic, but it's not heavily used except during certain festivals (International Bayfest, 4th of July, Tall Ships Festival, etc).

Educational Pavilion/Ship: Along the Fox River, where the new Main Street bridge will be (is) located, the opportunity exists to develop an educational pavilion and ship. Its intent would be to emphasize the heritage fostered by the Fox River and the development of Downtown Green Bay. For example, a public plaza wher epeople can observe ships entering and leaving the Fox River is envisioned. This site also presents and opportunity to permanently harbor a nautical museum within a ship as an educational platform. The ship could serve observation and education purposes with a restaurant or galley and complemented by a land based pavilion or nautical sculputure park. The park itself would emphasize the historic theme for the Fox River and Great Lakes, and be highly visible to the Convention District. These uses and activities would be complementary to the Neville Museum, railroad depot and other adjacent uses. It should be noted that the actual placement of this activity along the Fox River would be determined through a more detailed study assessing the feasiblility of this concept here, as well as in other locations.

The Main Street bridge (Ray Nitschke Bridge) was completed in about 1998. There is not yet any sort of educational pavilion but I love the idea. I like the idea of a museum ship as well, but the ship would have to be a good fit, something that truly represents the history of Great Lakes Shipping. I know there have been ideas to bring in the old naval ship formerly known as "USS Green Bay" (not the big new one, but the old gunboat). I'd rather see a true "laker" or some other old 'freshy' in port as a museum ship. Could an aquarium be put in the hull of this museum ship to attract more visitors? I seem to recall someone around here advocating that idea some years ago.

I've collected various plans & images of this site over the years:
Below: A plan for the park

Aerial View (click here)

Below: One of the most popular uses for the site is the Tall Ships Festival:

Below: Part of the site is still used as a shipping dock (photo by Jason Leino):

In the fall of 2004, before the park boat landing was finished, a French passenger cruise ship sailed into Green Bay full of tourists. Unfortunately the Leicht Park was not yet finished, so the passengers had to unload two bridges farther south at the K&K Warehouse dock. This industrial site could not have been a very pleasant dropoff for tourists. Perhaps consequently, no other large cruise ships have docked in Green Bay, despite completing a much improved docking and "people-friendly" facilities at Leicht Park.

Below: a French passenger cruise ship LeLevant docking in Green Bay:

Note: The local cruise boat, the Foxy Lady, ties up at a smaller dock across the river from Leicht Park.

What's Up Downtown news

2008-12-13T22:34:00.002-06:00

I subscribe to the weekly email called "What's Up Downtown", published by Downtown Green Bay, Inc.

The latest email newsletter included some results of a recent survey on downtown office space. This was very interesting and lft me feeling rather optimistic about the downtown:

The total amount of office space in Downtown Green Bay is over 1.5 million square feet and is 94% occupied-
The occupancy study was compiled by Downtown Green Bay, Inc. and evaluated 23 mixed-use, private office buildings in excess of 10,000 square feet along with numerous public office buildings and single occupant offices.
The 23 mixed-use properties reveal an overall occupancy rate of 90%.
Properties along the Fox River from Mason Street to Cherry are showing occupancy at or near full capacity.
The Historic Bellin Building improved from 50% to 90% occupied in the past 4 years with 18 new leases.
The Innovative Services Building on S. Madison St. went from 10% occupied to 100% occupied in 2 years.
To Review the Office Occupancy Study-
http://www.downtowngreenbay.com/ click on “news”

For details about Available Office Space in Downtown Green Bay-
Visit http://www.downtowngreenbay.com/ click on “real estate”

Combine the recent occupancy data with the 80% downtown employee satisfaction rating…..

…now that’s a recipe for additional development!

A couple questions that came to my mind: Was there a "benchmark" study done years earlier, as a basis for comparison for each of the categories? Or is this study the "benchmark"? And, will the financial meltdown and associated credit crisis and accellerated layoffs derail the momentum?

Mixed-Use Infill: Automobile-Oriented Development (#12)

2008-12-13T06:00:00.001-06:00

The 1997 Downtown Design Plan continues with suggestions for the Broadway area along the west side of the Fox River:

Along Broadway, north of Kellogg to Mather and south of Arndt to 7th Street, the importance of a pedestrian-oriented environment is less critical. Mixed-use development should retain some pedestrian qualities, such as zero setbacks, but access and parking may be more flexibly developed. Parking can be located at the back and the sides of structures, allowing for more flexibility in the types of businesses that may wish to locate along these sections of Broadway. Commercial activities should focus upon serving the adjacent areas that are industrial and/or residential in character, thus supporting nearby residents and employees.

Commentary. It is important to provide some auto-oriented business sites in the city, even in the downtown. I agree that these areas would be well-suited for this type of development. I especially like the parking in the rear.

Mixed-Use Infill: Pedestrian-Oriented Development (#11)

2008-12-12T06:00:00.001-06:00

Now moving to the west side of the River to the "Broadway Village", the plan continues:

Broadway presents the opportunity to create a distinct environment, highly identifiable as a special place. The Broadway Corridor may provide opportunities for small businesses, or niche enterprises that seek this distinct environment. A pedestrian ortientation between Dousman and Arndt Streets should exist within the village. Additionally, the west block face of Broadway from Dousman to Kellogg should be included as part of this treatment area. Infill opportunities along the corridor shoudl be investigated and pursued. Policies that promote mixed-use have been initiated and should be continued. Renovation and occupation of existing spaces should also continue to be promoted. Building development should enhance the urban streetscape, promoting a pedestrian friendly environment. Zero (0') setbacks should be maintained with surface parking located behind buildings with access of Chestnut or various east/west cross streets in the area. Parking areas should not extend beyond on-half block west of the block face on Chestnut Street and these parking areas should be buffered from adjacent residential property.

Commentary: Resounding success. Very impressive recovery. When I moved here in 2000, Broadway was stil quite seedy. Much improved.

Cultural Heritage Anchor (#10)

2008-12-11T06:00:00.000-06:00

The 1997 Downtown Design Plan offered an idea for a blighted and underutilized site along the east side of the Fox River just south of the Mason Street bridge (click here for birds eye view).

The purpose of this feature is to enhance the awareness of the heritage and history of the community and region by fostering opportunities for educational and leisure activities for both residents and visitors. This site, located south of the Mason Street overpass and adjacent to the Astor Neighborhood, is suitable for development as a Green Bay/Brown County Regional Cultural-Heritage Center. The initial phase may included an interpretive park, active archeological dig, and/or historic education site. Future phases may include the construction of a cultural-heritage education pavilion, which could house exhibits and artifacts that document the history of Green Bay and Northeast Wisconsin. Public access is maintained through portions of the park, which eventually could be connected with a regional rails-to-trails recreation system and the riverwalk into downtown. This project should be viewed as complimentary to the Heritage Hill project and may be directly connected to Heritage Hill via the rails-to-trails extension of the riverwalk. Thse locations may also be connected through a trolley system. The connection between the two heritage venues and the Astor Neighborhood provides excellent opportunities for walking tours, home tours and a complete experience for appreciating the history of the people and events of the area.

Commentary: At this point, I'd be happy with a simple park. I don't see much use for the run-down old metal and cinder block building still sitting empty at this site.

How do you like the Downtown Design Plan review so far?

2008-12-10T20:19:00.002-06:00

Based on the fact I have received very few comments on my review of the '97 plan , I'm guessing this topic may not be very interesting to you. I'm almost halfway through the recommendations of this plan. Since I have the rest of the recommendations already written (mostly), I am considering just posting them all in faster succession, perhaps publishing twice or even three times per day just to get them out there (I can schedule the posts). Later, I may simply reference back to the plan topics if need be. Thoughts? Leave a comment, or else just vote on the new poll to the right.

Open-Air Market and Marina (#9)

2008-12-10T06:00:00.002-06:00

This is one of the more interesting things within the 1997 downtown plan:

Directly south of the existing Riverwalk Plaza office building and parking lot, the opportunity exists for an open-air farmers market. A public and private activity center is envisioned in the area. The existing bus barn may be modified, the facade preserved and/or portions reconstructed to accomodate commercial uses. Also, the overhead electircal wires and ground facilities should be removed and relocated to accommodate proposed developent on the east and west banks of the Fox River. Additional retail can be developed along the river, preferably spaces is provided that will support boat activity along the river. Approximately 20,000 square feet of leaseable indoor commercial space could be included in this development. Outdoors, and open-air structure is constructed to house seasonal or year-round activities, such as a farmers market or special events, such as cook-offs and craft fairs. The open-air market is anchored by an amphitheater at the river, which provides a venue for promotional events, such as concerts, fireworks viewing, etc. Programming or events in this area could be coordinated with uses at other public gathering spaces thorughout downtown. A public marina would incorporate features such as a water taxi/boat landing and retail/office space.

The bus barn is gone, but instead of following the plan, two other developments: Johnson Bank and St Brendans. Granted these are both fine buildings--I love St Brendans--but the way this ended up (particularly with the large distances between the buildings separated by parking lots) just isn't as cool or as exciting as what the plan called for.

Best Restaurants in downtown Green Bay

2008-12-09T15:00:00.000-06:00

Check out the Man with a Fork blog. It nicely references and reviews many of Green Bay's finest restaurants, particularly in the downtown.

Mixed-Use parking ramp (#8)

2008-12-09T06:00:00.003-06:00

Looking at the existing conditions, I can understand what the planners were going for when they called for another parking ramp along South Washington street in the '97 plan. This ramp has not been built yet, and as I will discuss in my commentary below, I hope they look at a few other options before ever going ahead with this recommendation:

The opportunity to construct a mixed-use parking ramp on the east block face of Washington Street between Doty and Stuart streets would serve a variety of functions. Along with providing a stronger urban fabric through additional commercial space at street level (up to 30,000 square feet), the parking ramp may accommodate spaces needed for the Courthouse and Signature Office Complex (5) during the day, (137 to 155 spaces per level) and the Entertainment Village at night. The new structure should incorporate similair architectural qualities and materials as typical storefronts in the Entertainment Village and would provide continuous store frontage and activity that links the Best Western and proposed Open-Air Market and Marina (9) anchor, through the Entertainment Village to the Port Plaza Mall.

Commentary: Parking ramps rarely provide a "strong urban fabric", at least not quality one, even with street-level retail. I'd like to see some other options explored:
1) Standard building 75' deep buildings with zero setback from Washington along this entire block would displace only about 45 parking stalls. Parking could be reconfigured behind the buildings.

2) If indeed more parking is needed, I'de like to see a parking ramp with a better design than the new one a block north. Perhaps something like the one below, only with the retail/office space on the first level. Given the views of the waterfront, office space on the top level might be pretty interesting as well.

Mixed-Use Commercial Infill (recommendation #7)

2008-12-08T06:00:00.001-06:00

The '97 plan calls for infill along South Adams Street near The Stein:

North of Doty Street along the western block face of Adams Street to Walnut Street there exists an opportunity to expand commercial activities. Mixed-use commercial activities along with limited surface parking would help to solidify a variety fo activities along Adams Street from Doty Street to the Port Plaza Mall. Typical uses may include destination restaurants, and office or loft residential that may be supportive of nearby government functions.

Commentary: The Stein, a long-time downtown restaurant, closed in 2007 when the street construction shown below was underway. It reopened again after some improvements were done to the building, but recently it abruptly closed again. Not sure what's going on...people seemed to love the Stein and it was a destination restaurant.
Next door to the north, another restaurant had opened for a short time in about 2002 but did not last very long. Both buildings have some decent architectural qualities, the Stein with the traditional German look and the building next door having Art Deco features.
StreetView

View Larger Map

located in the entertainment village

Here is what this street looked like years ago:

Fox Theatre Renovation (recommendation #6)

2008-12-07T06:00:00.001-06:00

Meyer Theatre (formerly known as the Fox Theatre)

One of the coolest and most significant projects in the downtown in years was the renovation of the Fox Theatre. In 1997 the Fox Theatre was just a run-down old movie theatre whose ornate walls and intricate detailing was covered up by cheap panelling and drop ceilings. It was on the brink of being lost forever. The recommendation in the '97 plan:

The Fox Theatre represents a valuable asset to the form and function of the Entertainment Village. The architectural integrity of the block face would be hindered severely by the deterioration of the structure. Also the potential for housing a variety of entertainment activities (plays, concerts, dinner theatre, etc) will add additional liveliness to the area and draw people to the village.

Thanks to a lot of planning, coordination, hard work and community fundraising (including a $1.5 million donation from Betty Meyer) the renovation of this theatre was completed in February 2002. It is a spectacular success and continually plays host to many popular national acts as well as local ones.

MeyerTheatre.org

There have been some plans to develop the adjacent corner (the former Daily Planet and Camera Corner site). One such plan included a dinner theatre and an office tower which would have been known as the Grand Union. This plan did not pan out.

Signature Office Complex (recommendation #5)

2008-12-06T06:00:00.004-06:00

In 1998 or 99, this part of the plan was implemented just south of the Bellin Building. Here's what the 1997 plan had in mind for the Bellin Building and the site adjacent to the south (which was a parking lot at the time the plan was written).

The Bellin Building is a key anchor in the district due to its architectural quality and prominent location. The structure should continue to be utilized for commercial and office activities and/or other adaptive uses, such as residential lofts, to ensure the long-term viable use of the structure. Boat dock development may also occur adjacent to this site extending from the Walnut Street Bridge south to the Open-Air Market (recommendation #9). Public access along the river would be retained and access to the parking ramp assocated with the signature office site would be provided off Walnut Street.

Commentary: The Bellin Building has indeed undergone some significant renovation and appears to be viable once again. The boat dock will soon be constructed, this was announced just recently (click on graphic for larger view).

The plan further defines the plan for the site south of the Bellin Building:

The existing site south of the Bellin Building affords the opportunity to develop a "signature" office complex (Figure 10) with commercial storefronts along Washington Street and possibly along the Fox River on the first floor. The development of this site may require the relocation of some utilities to accomodate the activities proposed. The office building should serve as an landmark with distinct architectural qualities associated with premium office space. Office floor plates may be approximately 20,000 to 30,000 square feet, with the number of levels dependent upon the amount of parking that can be accomodated on and near the site. Commercial space, facing Washington Street, provides aproximately 8,000 to 12,000 square feet at street level depending on the use of space within the parking garage. Additional commercial activity complementary of the office and entertainment uses in the area should be encouraged on the first floor of the office building. Its is preferred that the parking garage associated with the office does not exeed four levels above grade. Parking provided is approximately 75 to 85 spaces per level. Use of the parking garage could meet the needs of employees during buisiness hours and those visiting the Entertainment Village at night, similar to the current function of the surface lot in this location. Additionally, the Mixed-Use Ramp (recommendation 8) provides nearby parking for these activities. This site should be developed in a manner that retains the public access adjacent ot the Fox River and connects with the Entertainment Village.

Commentary: RiverPlace Condos were built on this site in about 1998. It's actually 2 structures, one on the waterfront and another lines Washington Street. I like how at least some of the parking was put between the buildings, rather than having large lots next to the street or river. The architecture of the RiverPlace is decent; the materials are solid and the design has good articulation and fenestration with its storefront windows along Washington Street, balconies, and patios along the riverfront. Not to complain, but it is too bad that at least part of the building wasn't a bit taller or had other features to really define it as a "signature" building.

Click here to explore the site as currently configured. For some historical context, I recently posted an article showing what this site looked like in 1950.

Mixed-Use Residential Development (recommendation #4) aka "Site 4"

2008-12-05T06:00:00.005-06:00

"Site 4", as it is known by the Green Bay forumers on SkyscraperCity, was covered in the '97 Plan this way:

Across from the Mixed-Use parking Ramp (3) on the northwest corner of Washington and Walnut, the existing surface parking lot can be developed for commercial and residential use. An effective mixed-use concept enhances the type and timing of the activities and uses within the village, to create a true mixed-use area with residents, patrons, and employers using downtown at all hours. The development shown represents approximately 36,000 square feet per level. Commercial uses should be encouraged on Washington Street at the pedestrian level. The height, scale, and massing of this development should reflect the pedestrian orientation of the surruonding area along adjacent streets and the Fox River. Boat docks as an amenity for residential activity could be developed, but should not restrict public access along or to the river. Parking for tenants should be accomodated on-site within the structure and commercial parking may be accomodated by other existing parking opportunities within the village. Additionally, the view corridor along Cherry Street to the Fox River should be preserved and be unobstructed by buildings.

Commentary: Many proposals have been made over the last 10 years, including rather large developments and even a building designed like a giant ship (below). In 2003, the site was devided roughly in half and on the north part was built Nicolet National Bank. The south half remains a surface parking lot.

The developer last seen eyeing up the south side of "Site 4" recently described it as "not sexy enough" to attract interest from commercial tenants. Not sure why...

Prior to the 1980s, "Site 4" had been occupied by a building with more, aahhh...well, masculine features such as the turret (left side of the picture, below). Known as the "Brusky Building", this High Victorian Gothic building was demolished in 1981 in order to widen Walnut Street and create the surface parking lot.

Although just a parking lot now, this interesection is still a key, prominent location and in many ways close to the "epicenter" of the downtown, so I hope that whatever goes here, I hope it is significant.
Birds Eye image of Site 4 as of about 2007.

Mixed-Use Parking Ramp (recommendation #3)

2008-12-04T06:00:00.011-06:00

Recommendation #3 from the 1997 plan was more parking along Washington Street:

The development of the Town Center Park (1) will displace approximately 133 spaces of convenient parking. To assist in addressing this issue, a mixed-use parking ramp immediately south of the Town Center Park along Washington Street would be developed. The development of this ramp would displace another 128 spaces. General policy guidelines for the Town Square Village would indicate that structured parking be mixed-use, promoting leasable floor space for commercial activity at the pedestrian level. The proposed mixed-use parking ramp may provide up to an estimated 20,000 square feet of leasable commercial space, along with approximately 85-97 spaces per parking level. The ramp would neeed approximately three levels of parking to replace lost parking spaces due to the development of Town Center Park (1) and this property. Additional parking may be gained in the area as noted in the Town Center Park (1) discussion. The structure needs to be harmonious with its surrroundings and, therefore, should be approximately two to four levels and incorporate a parapet treatment to screen the upper level.

Commentary: This recommendation was implemented: A large new parking ramp was completed in 2005 I think it holds about 800 cars. Along the southern end of Washington and partially along Walnut Street, this ramp does have street-level retail space which today is being built out. Not sure who is going to lease this space.

In many respects I am disappointed that this massive parking ramp was built on such a prominent location. A city block that used to be considered the commercial epicenter of the downtown is now just a parking garage. Granted, the parking ramp has helped facilitate some good things, such as improving public perceptions about parking availability (perhaps stimulating the development of adjacent parcels), and bringing the street-level retail space; however, the massive size and function of this parking garage assaults the senses does not lend much of a comfortable or pleasant aethstetic to this key piece of downtown real estate. A particularly ugly part is the vehicle entry/exit on the north side of the ramp along Cherry Street. Worse, the ugly side faces the proposed Town Center Park (1). This parking orifice is scary in more than one way: Cars exiting the ramp have a hard time seeing pedestrians and it's a real danger to walkers. With this parking ramp looming ominously over the south side of the proposed Town Center Park and the BayLake Bank dominating the north side, I think the chances that people will actually want to hang around the Town Center Park is much diminished. Contrast this with popular and active city squares in other cities: Usually, the success of such places is dependent upon not only the quality of the square itself, but also the immediate surroundings: When surrounded by safe, comfortable, aethetically-pleasing sight lines and architecture, town squares tend to be more active and thus more functional as a public space. (see here)

In the end, I think the ramp was a mistake, particularly given its prominent location, inhumane massing, vehicle entry along Cherry St and the blah design. This will be a scourge, particularly as it ages and becomes decrepit (as parking garages always do). I wish this plan, the city, and the public were more embracing of transportation ideas that aren't strictly designed around parking cars.
Someone could say, "Get Real!, driving a car alone is a fact of life in this city!"
To that I answer, "Get Real! This car-oriented lifestyle has destroyed and continues to kill our city!"

What do you think of this parking ramp? Good or bad for the downtown?

Port Plaza Mall Enhancements (recommendation #2)

2008-12-03T06:00:00.006-06:00

Although the mall is now dead and a new strategy on how to deal with the mall site is being developed, this was the "take" on how to save the already floundering mall back in 1997:

Green Bay is distinct in the fact that it is one of the few municipalities to have a "contemporary" mall within the Central Activity Core of downtown. An opportunity exists to further enhance the image and visibility of the mall (Figure 9). Mall entry points can be more inviting and open up to the adjacent streets. Towers at the two primary south entrances (Washington and Adams Streets) will enhance identification and wayfiding to the mall, as well as provide additional landmark elements in downtown. The design of these entry elements may be reflected in the Landmark Tower (22) design or vice-versa, depending on the timing of the effort. In addition, a more celebrated entry where the mall terminates at Adams Street will enhance the visual image and perception of the mall. The elimination of dead-end parking stalls is replaced by a plaza courtyard and vehicular drop-off plaza. Existing service circulation and access is anticipated to have minimal disruption.

A future post will cover the Landmark Tower (22) referenced above.

Pedestrian access from the Convention District to the Entertainment Village is enhanced through an improved pedestrian atrium/corridor extending form the redesigned entrance at the terminus of Washington Street to a similiarly improve entrance on the north side of the mall near Admiral Flatley Park. To accomodate this pedestrian flow, the food court within the mall should be modified or moved to another location. If new nontraditional uses are introduced into this area of the mall, consideration should be given to extending Washington Street through the mall. Additionally, exterior improvedments are made using the refurbishment of the Younkers Building by removing paint from the brick and window surfaces, adding a lighted elevator/sparate access point to the Terrace Room at Younkers, possibly enhacing the Younkers facades through the use of artistic banners/lighting of other features, and the application of facade material improvements that assist in melding the structure with surrounding buildings. Similiar consideration should be given to the exterior improvement of the parking ramps and other mall structures. Also, the courtyard area at the end of Washington Street should be redesigned to promote greater use as a gathering space with benches and outdoor cafe opprtunities.

Many of the above recommendations were followed, but these did not save the mall. The '97 plan continues:

Consideration should be given to enhancing the interior and exterior design of the mall to reflect a "Main Street" feel by using traditional storefront materials and furniture elements that emulate historic Downtown Green Bay. These features can assist in creating a unique experience within and around the all and can perceptually tie the ramp exterior of the mall to the context of the Town Square Village. Also, the existing parking ramps associated with the mall should be improved as necessary to improve the customer perception and utilization of these facilities. This improvement may be accomplished through lighting, greater security visibility, changes in parking management philosophy and structural and aethetic enhancement that create a more user-friendly feeling.

The former Boston Store was saved after the mall closed and converted to the BayLake Bank City Center (also APAC). The plan was followed in that the exterior facade was treated with brick (traditional materials) but to be perfectly frank, the whole thing is kitsch. It's still clearly a bad mall building but now with a tacky facade. I hesitate to be so critical because I'm sure the interior is nice, and the investment has brought hundreds of new employees into the downtown; however, given the prominent location of this building in the "focal point" adjacent to the "Town Square Park", it's unfortunate that the exterior doesn't have more architectural quality.

Click here for the bird's eye perspective photos of the dead mall in about 2006.

Someone could add the Port Plaza Mall (aka Washington Commons) to DeadMalls.com

In 1997, the planners still counted on the mall continuing in some form, but it failed miserably even after some "enhancements" such as turning it into a "commons". The building is just plain physically dysfunctional.
What do we do next? This isn't in the '97 plan, but the city has talked about putting the street grid back through. I think this is absolutely necessary: At minimum, reconnect Adams Street to Main. Beyond that there is room for various ideas. Years ago I felt that larger developments might "fix" the site more quickly, but lately I'm thinking more in terms of parceling the lots out in smaller increments to redevelop the downtown more "organically" with small-to-medium scale developers. I think the smaller developments would be more realistic and end up being a lot more resilient to economic conditions and also be a lot more interesting.

Above: a larger but less realistic development idea involving an atrium and tower.

Below: Mall site could be redeveloped in smaller increments with buildings up against the street and parking behind them (the existing parking ramp would remain as well, I suppose).

This block of Washington Street had long been known as the city center (BayLake has now adopted that moniker) because this site had been considered at or near the epicenter of the city, at least until the entire block was razed to make room for the mall in the 1970s. With the mall now dead and likely to be razed, there is opportunity to redevelop this site into something special (see: Commons' Failure is Great Opportunity Downtown by downtownvital.org)

Town Center Park (recommendation #1)

2008-12-02T06:00:00.002-06:00

The meat has finally arrived! Let's get to the actual planned projects.
The Downtown Design Plan's first recommendation is to create a "Public Square" called Town Center Park on this parking lot within the Town Square Village

The existing surface parking lot in front of the (former) Boston Store is converted into a public gathering space--Town Center Park (Figure8). The park is designed and effectively managed/promoted for year-round utilization. Elements of the park include a multipurpose plaza to accomodate events, such as music or art festivals in the spring, summer, fall and converted into ice skating or seasonal activity areas in the winter. Vehicular access and limited short-term parking in front of the (former) Boston Store (currently BayLake City Center) can be accomodated. This proposal impacts the exising parking agreement with the Port Plaza Mall (now defunct) and requires renegotiation of that agreement. At least some of this parking can be accomodated through the availability of spaces in existing and proposed parking ramps, such as the Fox River Ramp, Pine Street Ramp and Mixed-Use Ramp (3), as well as new on-street parking on Adams Street when the Transit Center (26) is built.

This recommendation has not been implemented yet. I believe it could be a quick yet significant way to get a good "bang for the buck" in improving the overall perceptions of the downtown. What has been holding this plan up? I can't believe the displacement of parking spots can still be an issue; given that in 2005 a new 800-stall parking ramp was built on the south side of this parking lot. But who knows?

Below is a crappy photo of Figure 8 noted above. Click on the graphic to enlarge it.

Another downtown enthusiast on SkyscraperCity's Green Bay forum created the graphic below as one way to create this park while also maintaining a fair number of parking spaces:

Click here for the VirtualEarth interactive map of this site in its existing state.

Pretty damn boring for a "City Centre", except for perhaps once per year when it is the site of Artstreet.

Getting Unstuck in the Middle: How placemaking can lift medium-sized cities from the doldrums

2008-12-01T21:45:00.003-06:00

A little diversion from the Downtown Green Bay Design Plan review. The article below was posted on Project for Public Spaces and it fits in nicely with what I'm doing right now (plus it even mentions Green Bay). This should be good primer as I get ready to write about the ways Green Bay planned to create more "place" with the 1997 plan.

Posted by Jay Walljasper in Downtowns, Town Square
*****
Medium-sized cities seem are more apt to suffer from “placelessness”—the debilitating condition that saps a community of civic and economic vitality due to a lack of distinctive local character and lively public spaces. These are the towns—generally between 50,000 and 500,000 people—most in need of Placemaking.

Placemaking is a wide series of improvements that restore a community by bringing life back to downtowns, parks, waterfronts, local businesses, public markets, civic institutions, campuses, schoolyards, and the streets themselves—any spot where people can gather as friends, neighbors and citizens. This is how cities gain strength to accomplish social, cultural and economic goals. As PPS president Fred Kent notes, “When you start by thinking about place, everything turns out differently.”

Today many mid-sized communities—from Norfolk to Long Beach, Green Bay to Birmingham— are too easily dismissed as “nowhere,” cities where “there’s no there there”.

Small towns are often spared the ravages of placenesses because developers or government agencies with fancy plans for malls, downtown makeovers, freeways or other ill-advised ventures think these communities are too small to mess with. Their size also means they don’t have sufficient resources to inflict huge damage on themselves, such as bulldozing the heart of downtown to build a parking ramp, high-rise hotel, convention center, corporate headquarters, or stadium.

Big cities, meanwhile, have enough of a sense of place to withstand the numerous assaults that have been launched over the past 60 years. New York, Chicago, Boston and San Francisco are vital cities today not because they magically avoided wrongheaded development projects. Indeed, plenty of architectural atrocities were carried out there (think of Boston City Hall Plaza, ranked one of the worst places in the entire galaxy by an April Fools edition of the PPS newsletter), but enough great urban infrastructure still remained to keep these cities interesting and vibrant.

But woe is the mid-sized cities that believed they could join the big leagues by ramming a six-lane expressway along the waterfront, flattening older neighborhoods at the first sign of decay, or lavishly accommodating every motorist who wanted a parking spot free and easy.

The most tragic example I know of a mid-sized city undermined by a misguided vision of progress is Mankato, Minnesota—a college town 70 miles southwest of Minneapolis on the Minnesota River. I’ve heard it was once a charming, lively place. Even Sinclair Lewis, the Nobel-prize winning writer who dissected the shortcomings of Midwestern towns in his classic Main Street, offered a warm description of Mankato in the novel: “…Mankato, which is not a prairie town, but in its garden-sheltered streets and aisles of elms is white and green New England reborn.”

But the heart of Mankato today looks as though it’s on life support rather than reborn. The scenic Minnesota River now flows through a massive concrete ditch thanks to a 1960s-era flood control plan that seemed to follow the infamous Vietnam War strategy of “destroying the village in order to save it”. The university decamped from its handsome historic buildings downtown for a soulless suburban campus on top of a hill.

And, in the cruelest blow of all, a massive roof was place on top of 19th Century downtown storefronts in imitation of a suburban shopping mall. The scheme was a disaster. The only life in downtown Mankato today is on the fringes of Front Street, the main drag, which were probably considered too shabby to be displayed under glass in the shiny new mall. These fringes now host restaurants, coffeshops, funky shops and people on the street, while the mall is almost empty except for folks paying a rare visit to government offices and social service agencies now housed there.

But hope is not lost. One of my favorite examples of a vital mid-sized city—which surprises everyone who’s never been there—is Fargo, North Dakota. It sports an attractive downtown graced by interesting shops, restaurants and civic institutions, which stay lively day and night by students who stroll over from the campus of North Dakota State University.

Indeed, many cities celebrated for being interesting, prosperous, livable and fun are medium-sized: Charleston and Savannah; Madison and Providence; Portland, Maine, and Victoria, British Columbia. Cities of any size that buck development-as-usual by embracing their distinct local qualities and creating great public places will find themselves moving ahead in the 21st Century.

PPS’s Great Cities Initiative is a good starting place for any medium-sized city that wants to explore Placemaking as way to improve its prospects and quality of life.

Source: blog.pps.org

Downtown Design Plan: Existing Strengths

2008-12-01T14:00:00.000-06:00

Wrapping up the intro design framework from the 1997 Downtown Design Plan:

Although Downtown Green Bay appears to have under performed during the recent past, it has not done so because of a lack of strengths to build upon. Several of downtown's great resources include the:
Existing Public and Private investment
Historic Resources
Fox River
Mixture of Uses and Roles
These resources, along with many individual components in downtown, create a unique foundation for Green Bay as it moves into the 21st century. The ability of the community to look at downtown in its entirety is important if downtown is to continue moving forwrd in the future.

I totally agree. I've been trying to use this blog to highlight many of these resources, to try to inform and educate people on these often overlooked assets.

Downtown Design Plan:Public Input & Issues Identified

2008-12-01T06:00:00.002-06:00

The next couple of sections in this plan are the results of public input on the downtown.

Last year I had blogged about the issues that were identified and ranked (article here) and also the categories that these issues lead to (click here).

Amost done with the framework stuff. I'll get to the "meat" of the plan soon.

Downtown Sub-Areas used within this plan

2008-11-30T22:30:00.001-06:00

The map below shows the "Downtown Sub-areas" as defined in the 1997 plan.

Within the sub areas, the plan designates some as "Urban Villages" defined as:

A village is urban in character: it is high density, and has pedestrian-friendly streets, architecture, and public amenities.
Villages are places where people live, work, and spend leisure time: instead of being primarily used during the day or during the evening, a village is a round-the-clock activity center.
A village is celebrated as distinctive: there is a perceptual idenitfication of place within the greater Green Bay community
Village uses are harmonious with other qualities and elements within the villagee: appropriate design and development strategies include mixed-use parking structures and distinctive surface parking lot treatments incorporationg landscaping, screening walls and fences.

The plan will discuss three "urban villages" within Green Bay's downtown including:

The "Town Square Village" (in red on the map below)
"Broadway Village" (dark blue area)
"Entertainment Village" (orange).

The other sub-areas of the downtown are considered "Districts" in this plan:

"a district is identified with a primary function. Within districts there may also be more flexibility in the development requirements than is suggested in the villages because the focus is based on functional aspects of the district versus strong design elements. Districts may have one primary function, such as the Government District and the Convention District. Other districts may facilitate a variety of uses. These areas may be less pedestrian-oriented, accomodating business types and funcitions that would disrupt the urban continuity desired in the villages.

I've recreated the downtown sub-area map as best I could with the Google Map below. You can click on the colored overlays for additional information on each:

View Larger Map

Downtown Design Plan: Districts and Landmarks

2008-11-30T06:00:00.001-06:00

Continuing with the "skeletal structure" of the design framework, the existing conditions needed to be further defined at the beginning of the plan:

The framework of paths and edges help to initially identify the existence of botht districts and/or nodes within downotwn. As shown in Figure 2, the districts and nodes tend to be small areas with fluid edges that may spill over traditional boundaries or are limited in expansion capabilities due to geographic limitations. Several districts and nodes are formed around the historic use or character of an area (Broadway corridor for example) and others are based on a concentration of similar activities (the entertainment areas along Washington Street, the government buildings, and the mall). Such districts and nodes play an important role in creating the diversity necessary to sustain the downtown area as a viable element of the community. Although important to recognize, districts and nodes must be viewed as interdependent and strengthened through more meaningful linkages than exist today.

I'd like to try to include Figure 2 but I'm not sure if I'll be able to make that happen. I think most of you are familiar with the downtown enough to get the gist of this without the graphic.

Within the various districts and nodes a variety of landmarks exist. The presence of institutional landmarks, such as churches, schools, museum, and government buildings lend a sense of stability to the downtown through the monumental nature of the architecture. A prime example of this quality is the Brown County Courthouse. Additionally, structures, such as the railroad depots (both having been converted to new uses), the YMCA building (a candidate for adaptive reuse), the Bellin Building, and other structures located along Broadway and within the Central Activity Core, serve as landmarks and visual cues for people in the downtown. Other landmarks include the continuous block faces of storefront facades that exist in portions of the downton, as well as the coal piles and the power line structures along the Fox River. The presense and qauality of these landmark features in many ways is symbolic of the community's values and committment of downtown.

This blog has been dedicated to highlighting the existing landmarks. I've posted quite a few photos and blog articles about the places mentioned, including the courthouse, Bellin Building, churches, government buildings, and more. As this article pointed out, I tend to disagree with the idea of adaptive reuse of the old YMCA building, although certainly the building could continue to be rehabilitated and the upper floors are underutilized.

Certainly these landmarks do lend a sense of stability and familiarity to the downtown as the plan suggests. The mix of buildings facilitate a lot more: Some of the older buildings can be more affordable for a new business just starting out, as space purchase can be less expensive than building new. Additionally, is often a coolness factor in terms of often having fabulous woodwork, brickwork, stained glass, and other features that are cost-prehibative to build today. Moreover, the old landmarks define the history and character of the downtown.

Downtown Design Plan: Existing paths & edges

2008-11-29T18:00:00.005-06:00

The plan consultants conducted some field obeservations to establish the existing conditions of downtown primarily attempting to identify the framework of paths, edges, districts, nodes and landmarks (as of 1997) In this section, I'll review what they had to say about paths and edges, with some commentary:

The pathway system in downtown is focused on two systems. First, the roadway system which is primarily automobile oriented. Within downtown the system is based on the traditional grid with a hierarchy of functions from the highway (Mason St) to arterial (Ashland, Monroe, Webster, Main and Walnut) to local commercial and residential (Broadway, Washington, Howard and Crooks). This grid system is interrupted by the major water course of the Fox and East rivers. Additionally, circulation is influenced by the existance of one way and two way streets (Jefferson, Madison, Pine and Cherry) and by on-and off-ramp configurations along Mason Street. The most notable regional roadways leading into downtown are Ashland, Monroe, Webster, Mason, Walnut and Dousman fromt the west, and Main and University from the east.

I have my own observations here, perhaps a bit more blunt: My biggest problems with the auto-oriented downtown are two-fold: First, the highway and arterial streets all-too-often create barriers to both pedestrian and auto travel (think of how many streets are cut off by Mason Street). Second, the auto-dominated downtown necessitates many parking lots, which in turn break up the character of the downtown. I understand that cars are the primary means of travel in this region, and I'm not against all cars in the downtown; however, the needs of cars have trumped every aspect of downtown design in the last 50 years. Although "more parking" is always one of the top issues people complain about in downtown surveys, they may not be thinking the problem through, because the other top issue people have with the downtown is the "dead space". These two issues are one in the same: parking lots and ramps create even more dead space, adversely affecting the overall downtown character. Cars can bring people from the 'burbs into the downtown, that's great, but we need better, more creative ways of moving people around once they're in the downtown if we ever hope to restore it to a truly urban, vibrant place. Public transit is not addressed in this plan, but I have more to say on this in my next post.

The plan continues:

The second system of note in downtown is the pedestrian system. This system is supported by sidewalks along the roadways and the riverwalk along the Fox and East rivers. The pathways along the rivers (are) disjointed and segmented primarly by the built environment. The Fox River Ramp, overhead power lines and ground facilities, industrial activities and lack of activity anchors/destinations and linkage, hinders greater use of this pathway. Additionally, sidewalk useage is influenced heavily by the scale of adjacent property development, the existence of streetcape enhancements, and the location of the sidewalk in relation to the speed of passing cars. Sidewalks,such as those on the Mason Street Bridge and along portions of Main Street, do not always provide a comfortable feeling to pedestrians. Whereas, sidwalks in the vicinity of Cherry and Adams Streets are more pedestrian oriented.

My commentary & observations: Since this plan was published in 1997, many of the barriers along the Fox River (such as the parking ramp and overhead power lines) have been removed. Also, a pedestrian underpass was put underneath Walnust Street. The improvement of the trail south of Grignon Street (the conversion of the old rail line to the new Fox River State Trail) has helped to make walking along the riverfront a success! It is one of the most heavily used state trails in Wisconsin.

I'm interested in why it's important for sidewalks to have a "comfortable" feeling, as the plan describes. Some would say that comfort doesn't matter--"As long as people can walk along the street, who cares what it 'feels like'...<grumble>... bunch of complainers! Why aren't these walkers driving a car anyway? Don't they work so they can afford to buy a car? Why should I have to subsidize sidewalks (and transit) for these low-lifes?". Whether this class overtone is real or perceived, I don't know, but it's worth consideration.

People are less likely to walk at all if the sidewalk is nothing more than a strip of narrow concrete butted tight up against a busy street with fast-moving cars, such as the sidewalk along many parts of Mason, Webster, Walnut, and Main Streets. Large trucks roaring by can leave walkers literally in a cloud of dust and smoke. And it's not just about comfort; it's also about safety too. Bad sidewalks are especially avoided if walking with kids: The margin of error is small when cars are whizzing not much more than inches away from the sidewalk. Kids can act erraticly, just one mistake and they could too-easily be getting squashed by a truck. Many drivers look to these dysfunctional sidewalks as "evidence" that sidewalks are unused anyway, so why even spend money to build or maintain them? Of course not all sidewalks are so poorly designed. When I think about quality sidewalks that serve pedestrians and businesses well, those mentioned in the plan (Adams, Cherry, Washington) as well as Pine St are well designed and consequently well used. On the west side, I believe that among the major reasons for Broadway's rejuvination are the sidewalks and comfortable pedestrian environment.

The plan goes on to discuss "edges" that serve to segment the geographic area and create barriers. The Fox River is of course a barrier and an edge:

As a natural feature, the Fox and East rivers provide a tremendous asset to Downtown Green Bay. Although, the presence of both rivers tend to separate the functional and geopolitical elements of the community. Currently the Fox River appears to be a dividing line between east and west instead of a seam where people can come together. This feeling of separation is reinforced by the limited number of crossings, the types of activities located along the river system, the way the buildings back up to the water, and the limited numbers of views to the river throughout the downtown. Views and access along the waterfront are critical, but just as important are views into the river along Cherry Street and other corridors. Currently, these viewing opportunities are limited or hindered at best.

The Fox River is finally starting to act more as a "seam where people can come together". The CityDeck boardwalk now under construction will be the most prominent example, but there are others as well. Buildings are now designed to face the river. The plan includes a sketch map showing the thoroughfares, paths, edges and views. Of interesting note to this blog's readers--this map calls attention to the good views from the 'brownfield site' looking towards the river and skyline. (wouldn't a ballfield serve nicely to bring people to the river, let them enjoy the views for an extended stay while enjoying the summertime waterfront?)

The plan notes that Mason Street not only exists as a physical barrier, but also a "protective buffer between the possible encroachment of the downtown and the Astor Neighborhood". I don't necessarily see it that way.

Downtown Design Plan review: Introduction

2008-11-28T18:00:00.007-06:00

Over the next couple of weeks, I will review the Green Bay Downtown Design Plan, published in 1997 by Gould Evans Goodman Associates for the City of Green Bay. Some recommendations in the plan have been implemented; others have yet to be; and some will never happen. I plan to bring the plan recommendations back to light on this blog, with 11 years of hindsight and perspective.

A few quotes from the introduction of this plan:

Green Bay is home to a series of events that cannot be claimed by any other community. The establishment of Fort Howard, the activities of the fur trade, the legend of Jean Nicolet, the Brown County Courthouse, the establishment of the paper industry and medical community, and the commitment of the people who have served the community through hard work, entrepeneurialism and great pride. At the heart of this community and much of its history is Downtown Green Bay.

Green Bay's location along the banks of the Fox River provided a home to industry, commercial trade, government, and residential neighborhoods. It is a place where people can come together for a variety of reasons and activities....Downtown Green Bay has not achieved its full potential because many of these actions and decisions have occured without considering the overall development context in which they exist....

Downtown Green Bay is located in the center of a metropolitan region of approximately 220,000 individuals. It is a regional destination for commerce, conferences, medical assistance and is a gateway for tourism activity throughout northeast Wisconsin and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.

Commentary: The downtown in its heydey is the source of much nostalgia. The great pride people have of the downtown's rich history is evidenced by the pictures of the old city hanging on the walls around the city today. There is still significant interest in the downtown, even among non-natives and the younger generation. Who isn't captivated by "what once was" when looking at the old pictures, or hearing accounts of the vibrancy and excitement of the downtown of 50 years ago? It's almost unbelievable that so many of the great places have been razed, and along with them, so much history, character, and vibrancy destroyed. On the bright side, there remains much to build on while moving into the future.

Oh Big Box-Mart, what do you have for me? cause our shopping carts are empty and we're on a shopping spree

2008-11-27T20:47:00.001-06:00

A rebroadcast of my favorite JibJab cartoon for 'black friday' and to kick off the 'shopping season':

Big Box Mart Funny Jokes at JibJab

Upcoming series: Reviewing the 1997 Downtown Design Plan

2008-11-25T23:47:00.002-06:00

Since I'm feeling re-energized about this blog, I am busy preparing a series of articles reviewing the city's 1997 Downtown Design Plan. I got a copy of this plan a few years ago and from time to time I've flipped through it to review what's been done since the plan was published and what might still be in the works. It's also interesting to look at some of this with at least some hindsight.

On the outset, it might seem like a boring topic. However, as I'm reading it more carefully and thinking about the ideas, I think it could provide some interesting fodder for discussion here, especially if I can carefully dole it out with schnazzy graphics and in the bite-sized chewable chunks that the blog format enables. Stay tuned for upcoming blog posts on this, I think you will enjoy.

Just a quick note of thanks.

2008-11-25T18:16:00.000-06:00

Not sure why, but lately the visits and comments to Packerland Annals have been increasing in number.

I just want to say thank you! to everyone who reads, comments, votes on the polls, etc. Without your participation, blogging would be very boring and I probably wouldn't keep this going. My goal is simply to stimulate thought and conversation about the community, not to simply blah blah blahg all by myself. I'm just an unfrozen cave man still frozen in time, things in the modern world frighten and confuse me.

Incredible cottage near the Bayshore in the Town of Green Bay

2008-11-24T06:00:00.002-06:00

The Press-Gazette's series on Architecture featured a spectacular hand-built cottage located along the shore of Green Bay. Local architect Max Schober and his son built this in 1923 in their spare time. It's hard to imagine doing all of this incredible detail in "spare time", as Max Schober was one of the very talented local architects who teamed up with other architects Henry Foeller and Edgar Berner to design what I consider many of the best buildings ever built in Green Bay. But more on them later.

Below are two images from the slideshow, watch and listen to the entire slideshow:

photos by the Green Bay Press-Gazette

Brownfield of Dreams promotional PDF

2008-11-23T14:39:00.003-06:00

As long as I'm promoting this idea, I thought I'd put together a single-page printer-friendly PDF you can print off if you'd like: (click here and then on the PDF attachment). The PDF summarizes the key concepts and visual images.

P.S. As mentioned in my recent comment replies and on the skyscrapercity Green Bay forum, I am looking to render up a better stadium model. Based on some initial measurements, a stadium with similiar size and capacity of the Madison Mallards would fit great on the Brownfield site, even better than the one I currently show on the above PDF.

P.S.S. Based on some scale images and models I worked on today, it appears to me that the Brownfield may be the only site in downtown that is large enough for this

Family of Five found Alive in Suburbs

2008-11-23T06:00:00.001-06:00

I've written quite a few urban sprawl articles on Packerland Annals, looking into what happened to the Green Bay metro area and why it abandoned the downtown and spread out the way it did. Given the amount of energy spent on these issues, this recent Onion article touched a nerve.

Lots of chatter lately about local baseball stadiums

2008-11-22T17:00:00.001-06:00

This blog, as well as the Green Bay forum on SkyscraperCity.com, has been alive with baseball stadium talk lately. Green Bay isn't the only city looking around at various options for the local team: The same discussions are going on in other Wisconsin communities, including Wausau and Waukesha. Check out the discussion at the CitizenWausau blog. Also, this article summarizes the plans for the new Northwoods League team & stadium in Waukesha.

Green Bay downtown in 1950

2008-11-20T20:17:00.000-06:00

Here is an aerial picture of the Green Bay downtown in 1950. The Walnut Street bridge is on the left:

I've cropped and zoomed in a portion of this aerial below. By my estimation, at least half of the buildings shown here have been razed between 1950 and today. It was a little more densely-built back then.

New "Brownfield of Dreams" render

2008-11-16T18:47:00.003-06:00

Because I think this is such a great idea, I'm continuing to work on the baseball stadium concept. Below is my latest render, showing the Green Bay skyline in the background (or at least, what there is of one). I blended the render into a background skyline photo copyright Ryan Photography of Green Bay, used by permission. Click on the render to enlarge it.

Could downtown Green Bay be home to 75,000 people?

2008-11-11T18:11:00.004-06:00

While reviewing the 2008 Downtown Survey Comprehensive Report, I noticed someting interesting: Question #5 asked Green Bay people if they'd consider living in downtown Green Bay. Of the 1536 respondents, 33% replied YES either they would consider living downtown, or that already do.

This seems to validate some market research I reported on this blog last year, which claimed that people have natural inclinations to live in certain types of settings, and that these propensities can be divided into thirds:

About one third of the U.S. population would like to live in a small town or rural area if they could have what they wished;
Another third prefers conventional suburban living;
the remaining third would like to live in a truly urban community where something's always going on and it would be possible to walk to shops, restaurants, and entertainment.

Given that the population of Brown County is about 226,000, could it be that thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of people would be willing to live in downtown Green Bay? Click here for my earlier article on this. At that time, I was feeling more optimistic that this could indeed be the case. However, the urban qualities that draw people downtown are at least somewhat lacking in Green Bay. We cling to a few elements but the promise of further revival has been slow in coming.

Brownfield of Dreams

2008-11-08T22:05:00.015-06:00

A new baseball stadium could revitalize a long-vacant waterfront property in the downtown and draw more people out to see the Bullfrogs

Please note, the ideas expressed in this blog are purely speculation, armchair musings, dreaming, wishing...whatever you want to call it....none of this comes from the city or the owner of the Bullfrogs.

Several people on the skyscrapercity forum have been pushing for a new baseball stadium in the downtown area to house the Green Bay Bullfrogs baseball team (currently, they play at Johannes Park next to East High School). An article on Ballpark Digest explains some of the shortcomings of the current stadium.

One vacant downtown parcel that could be the best site for a new and perhaps more suitable stadium for the Bullfrogs would be the so-called 'brownfield' site, a long-vacant property along the Fox River just north of Mason Street.

There is some question as to whether the 'brownfield site' is large enough for a baseball diamond. To try to answer the space questions, I dusted off my SketchUp 3D modelling program and got to work with some models that are true to scale. Here's what I came up with so far:

Click here for larger photos with captions.

I think this site is ideal for many reasons:

The waterfront makes for a unique atmosphere:

'splash-down' home runs
ability for boaters to dock and watch a game
unique views of passing ships, opening bridges, and the downtown skyline (what there is of one anyway... for example, the County Courthouse)

It would be highly visible from Mason Street. Drivers looking down from the bridge would be drawn out of their cars and into the downtown by the new life that would be breathed into this part of downtown.
It would anchor the southern end of the Broadway District, bringing thousands of people here throughout the summer. This could help spur further rejuvination of Broadway, particularly along the south end.
Not many other non-industrial uses work well up against the darkness underneath the Mason St bridge

My 3D render could use more work to look pretty, but I think this scale model does answer some of the basic questions such as how a baseball field could be fit within this site to take best advantage of the site.

Given the time & energy, I may continue to flesh this idea out some more because I think it is one of the best ideas to come out of the Green Bay thread on skyscrapercity forum.

Update: I did spend some time fleshing out this idea a little more. One thing I did was add a skyline background photo (copyright Ryan Photography of Green Bay, used by permission).

Click here to download a printable 8x11" PDF document containing the key concepts and renders.

I also did get a more modern stadium model which is about the right size for the Green Bay Bullfrogs market. I used this scale model to ascertain which sites in the downtown could best handle a stadium (see the slideshow below, or you can view larger versions of these images by clicking here and then clicking on the individual images).

Also of note, the City of Green Bay prefers to call this site the "Greenfield Site" rather than the "Brownfield" because the site contamination has been cleaned up.
More possibilities for this site:
Rumor has it there may be some interest from other developers to put a restaurant, hotel and/or offices on the site. Clearly these other uses can still fit on the site, even with the baseball stadium. In fact, I think the restaurant/hotel would be complimented by the stadium; each could play off of one another quite well.

In the past, there have been other concepts drawn up by planners for this site; however, neither showed the baseball stadium idea:

Some goals for this site were laid out in the 1997 Downtown Design Plan for the City of Green Bay. I will be reviewing this plan in mid-December.

Shipbuilder Cuts Ribbon on Green Bay Facility

2008-11-07T05:00:00.004-06:00

Wisconsin has a shipbuilding tradition that dates back to the 19th century. Milwaukee, Manitowoc and Sturgeon Bay have been the ports most associated with ship building in Wisconsin, but Green Bay also had a substantial shipbuilding industry from the 1850's to the 1920s:

On the Fox River at the foot of Eigth Street, a Norwegian immigrant named Soren Anderson operated a shipyard between 1857 and 1884.
Near the confluence of Dutchman's Creek and the Fox River, another Norwegian named Thomas Christiansen produced sailing vessels for Lake Michigan between 1860 and 1875.
On the Fox River at South Pearl Street, the Johnson Shipyard opened in 1876. This site later became the Northwestern Engineering Company and then K&K Warehousing.
In 1898, the Johnson & Son Shipyard moved to larger quarters at the end of Grignon Street where it built ships until its closing in 1921. The remnants of this shipyard and launching facilities are still visible at this site.

ACE Marine, a subsidiary of Marinette Marine, is bringing the ship building tradition back to Green Bay. The former Johnson Shipyard/Northwest Engineering/K&K Warehousing facility on the Fox River at Pearl & Walnut streets will soon begin producing medium-sized aluminum response boats for the Coast Guard. More than 50 new jobs will be created here, and this facility will produce fifteen Coast Guard ships per year.

Helicopters sold separately. Batteries not included. (I couldn't resist this, the photo of the boat and helcopter looks like someting from a toy catalog).

P.S. I forgot that Carver may also expand their yacht building operation to Green Bay at Quincy and Bay Beach Road. See: Press-Gazette article

We knew Wisconsin would be blue...but THIS blue?

2008-11-05T17:51:00.001-06:00

The pre-election polls had predicted that Wisconsin would go Democratic in the presidental election this year, just like it has in every presidential election since 1984. So it was no surprise it remained a "blue state".

However I don't think anyone predicted it would be like this . People tend to think that only the "liberal areas" of the state (namely Milwaukee and Madison) put the state in the "blue" category, but clearly the election results from 2008 show that most counties had majority votes for Obama, with the most notable exceptions being the suburban Milwaukee counties. Even Brown County turned Blue this year; only once since 1964 had this happened (Clinton in 1996).

Here are a couple of maps showing the election results by county:

Let your voice be heard

2008-11-04T02:00:00.000-06:00

Voting day!

Fox River, a working waterway

2008-11-03T02:00:00.000-06:00

A view of the Fox River, looking north from downtown.
A ship is docking near the Pulliam Power Plant near the Interstate 43 (Leo Frigo) Bridge.

Has anyone seen the plans for the redevelopment of Port Plaza Mall downtown?

2008-11-02T17:58:00.001-06:00

Some time ago, a Madison developer named T. Wall came forward saying he wanted to redevelop the site of the former downtown mall (Port Plaza Mall-- later renamed Washington Commons).

It would be great to see these plans, even if they don't come to fruition. The plans seem little more than a myth to me.

Has anyone had any sightings recently?

Washington Street trolleys, 1920s or 30s

2008-11-01T12:53:00.002-06:00

Here's a view of North Washington Street from the Walnut Street intersection from 70 or so years ago. The high concentration of businesses and other buildings throughout the downtown was greatly facilitated by the streetcar trolley system. Green Bay ended the trolley service in November 1937. The tracks were torn out of the street during the scrap metal drives of World War II.

Mixed industries help Wisconsin weather slowdown, economist says

2008-10-18T20:43:00.001-05:00

How is Packerland weathering the economic downturn? So far, it seems, better than some other parts of the country:

"The types of goods made in Wisconsin have found strong export demand, he said. From 2006 to 2007, Wisconsin's exports rose 28%, led by machinery, he said.

"It largely reflects strong economic growth by our international trading partners that are demanding items we make, such as tractors, construction equipment, medical devices, generators and mining equipment," Evans said.

"In comparison to the manufacturing sectors in Michigan, Indiana and Ohio, Wisconsin's (manufacturing) is more concentrated in capital equipment rather than in motor vehicles. Wisconsin is an important producer of machine tools, construction and farm machinery, food processing equipment, electronic control systems and diagnostic medical systems."

The quote above is from the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel: Read the full article here

Over 1600 People Share Views and Vision for Downtown Green Bay

2008-10-12T11:12:00.001-05:00

Over 1600 People Share Views and Vision for Downtown Green Bay

Results of the 2008 downtown survey reveal growing anticipation for residential amenities and support for business location downtown including an above-average interest in moving downtown and nearly 80% employee approval of working downtown. The August 2008 survey was a joint project between Downtown Green Bay, Inc. and Olde Main Street, Inc.’s Business Development Committee and the City of Green Bay’s Economic Development Department who plan to distribute the information to developers and event planning organizations.

Read the results of the survey from the Downtown Green Bay Inc web site here.

The Press-Gazette reported on this survey as well:

"For many sociological and environmental reasons, it is really important that our downtowns are vibrant and exciting places to live,"

Now, a few people in our area — prefacing their comments with "I haven't been downtown in years" — will tell you downtown is a ghost town, visited by no one and with nothing to do. The survey refutes that, by people who have been there and done quite a few things.
"The thing I keep learning and seeing is Green Bay has the amenities people are talking about. We don't market them well," Weiss said, who, having lived in Madison, has a basis for comparison.
Survey respondents didn't give downtown perfect scores, but overall they are pleased with the direction it is taking.

Read the full Press-Gazette article here

photo: ArtStreet in downtown Green Bay (Press-Gazette photo)

"I think Obama just kinda explained himself better."

2008-10-09T19:35:00.001-05:00

Ahh, election season in a "swing state". Gotta just kinda read this.

Peak Oil

2008-10-03T18:48:00.002-05:00

Lately I have been studying something that I consider to be a big problem for our country's future, even bigger than (but related to) this current financial situation.

Here is one article that gives you some introduction to the the "Peak Oil" future. It very well may be worth your while to consider the deep implications of this topic.

If indeed "Peak Oil" is happening, I wonder how Green Bay area might fare in the future. I plan to blog some of my thoughts soon.

What if Green Bay invested $5 million on a streetcar trolley downtown?

2008-09-21T20:55:00.008-05:00

What would be your reaction if the City of Green Bay proposed a downtown trolley loop that cost $5 million dollars? An investment worth the cost? Or a waste of taxpayer dollars? Would it make any difference if half of the cost was borne on federal transportation dollars or from some other source? (I'd LOVE to see WPS/Peoples energy come forward with some money for an electric streetcar system...they used to run the city's streetcars!).

These questions are all theoretical of course---there is nothing in the works that I'm aware of to do such a project.

A trolley loop of about 2.2 miles like this (click here) would get within a block or so of nearly every major destination downtown, and could spur further redevelopment and infill of underutilized parcels. My guesstimate of the cost for such a loop would be around $5 million (the City of Kenosha built their 2 mile streetcar system for about $4 million just a few years ago).

Again, there is nothing about this that comes from the city, it is simply my armchair musings of my own.

9/22/08: Here is a map showing another option that brings the trolley down Washington Ave rather than Adams St. This map shows some of the destinations served along the way. On this map I also pinpoint many parcels that could see increased value, infill and/or redevelopment with this trolley route, I believe, by allowing greater access without parking lot requirements. By the way, trolleys usually outperform busses in moving shoppers and tourists (I'm looking for my sources on this).

The above map links were done with Virtual Earth. Below, I used Google Maps to modify the route, this one including spur links to the stadium district area and Bay Beach. I think the spur links could be used not only by tourists, but also by commuters who work downtown. Daily users might be workers who park their cars in another area and take the trolley into the downtown. Of course the spurs would add significantly to the cost. Anyway here is the Google Map link with the spurs added.

9/23/08:
Sad to see the "Alaskan Road to Nowhere" cost $25 million in taxpayer dollars, and really, it goes nowhere. You could argue that a Green Bay downtown trolley might "only" serve thousands people per year, but at least it would serve somebody and at 1/5 the cost.

"I hate green architecture"

2008-09-19T22:20:00.000-05:00

This article makes a lot of sense to me.

Packer kicker Mason Crosby scores with the Brown County Courthouse

2008-09-16T20:03:00.000-05:00

Update on the Washington Ave waterfront projects

2008-09-14T15:43:00.001-05:00

From WBAY.com